Where did all the fuel go?

[ilmiont]

HGV driving has long interested me and I still regularly reconsider my career choice. Since I left school I've been running my own software development business, which is now enjoying some degree of success, but after a hard day I end up trying to work out how I could get into driving instead.

The trouble for me with entering HGVs now isn't really the tests, theory, or working conditions - it's the future. I'm 22 now and I could have a few good years on the road but I don't see myself being satisfied driving something electric and semi-autonomous in a few more years time.

Really my dream is to make a living as an owner driver but looking at the practicalities it doesn't look like something I could sustain long-term. With reluctance I've conceded it's not worth destroying what I've built so far if I can't guarantee it will satisfy me in another decade. Maybe it's best this way - driving for me at the moment is for recreation only; perhaps a few bad days trucking would end up souring my relationship with my S60 too, as driving currently forms the basis of only my best and most memorable days.

It's even hard to find a vehicle that suits - try and find a manual gearbox FH, there are only a handful advertised at any time, almost all of them fitted for tipping/heavy haul. I'd want to run a manual Volvo on general distribution, preferably a late third-gen FH Euro 5, but there aren't any. Euro 6 fourth-gen FH units with manuals are practically non-existent on the market, then Volvo started saying "you can't have one" after 2017.

Even assuming I found a way to exit my business, opted for a career change, found a truck, and got on the road, how many years before it becomes impractical/uneconomical to run a Euro5/6 vehicle? It would be the worst thing to me, having to sell/scrap a usable vehicle which I'd made my living in, based on legislation, because for me the job would be a life and centred on the vehicle. Euro 7 is on the way, probably something non-diesel and nasty after that, tractor units are getting ever more electronic with digital dashboards and mirror cams... none of that appeals to me. If I could be sure I could drive a diesel with a proper gearbox and real mirrors for years to come, I'd be seriously looking at getting in the industry, but steering a mirrorless automatic about just doesn't interest me. I admire and aspire to drive the current-gen vehicles but the next-gen vehicles and emissions laws have driven me away from pursuing it as a full-time role.

I do intend to get my license soonish and am pinching myself for not doing it sooner as hauliers in my area are advertising a lot of casual positions, almost looking desperate in some cases. Now I'd be waiting weeks or months to get a test though, by which time the opportunities could be gone. I like the idea of an odd run at the weekend... but then you've got the 35 hours of CPC to keep a license I'd barely use. Nonetheless if the government follows through on suggestions of combining the C and C+E tests, I may finally get my license as that would be one obstacle removed.

I do wonder if I made the wrong career choice, I do almost envy the owner drivers who spend their lives on the roads in older Volvos, but I know I'm also only seeing the good bits and with transport vehicles, nothing can be taken for granted in the current climate of supply chain chaos and environmental lobbying. It seems very high risk to enter the industry, then have it all snatched away when they take our diesels.

[Whippy]

Originally Posted by anotherv60

If I’m understanding it correctly any class c licence is in that category so anyone with horses who has a c1 would be counted as a heavy goods driver. Unlikely those demographic overlap much. The other interesting thing is that if HGV drivers are listed as skilled then according to the new immigration rules they will need to be paid more than the current rate of pay in the industry, which I would imagine is why the hauliers industry isn’t fussed…even higher pay.

C1 is 3.5 to 7.5 tonnes. You needed to have a C license (rigid lorry) before you could try for hgv, now you can train and test in an arctic.

[dped]

Originally Posted by garethXC

"A 19yr old who passed a car test 6mths ago can get a class1 with poor training or time to get to grips with the size of the vehicle they are driving"

sorry but i though you had to be at least 21 to get a HGV licence?

Nope 18

https://www.gov.uk/become-lorry-bus-driver

[Sotosound]

Originally Posted by ilmiont

HGV driving has long interested me and I still regularly reconsider my career choice. Since I left school I've been running my own software development business, which is now enjoying some degree of success, but after a hard day I end up trying to work out how I could get into driving instead.

The trouble for me with entering HGVs now isn't really the tests, theory, or working conditions - it's the future. I'm 22 now and I could have a few good years on the road but I don't see myself being satisfied driving something electric and semi-autonomous in a few more years time.

Really my dream is to make a living as an owner driver but looking at the practicalities it doesn't look like something I could sustain long-term. With reluctance I've conceded it's not worth destroying what I've built so far if I can't guarantee it will satisfy me in another decade. Maybe it's best this way - driving for me at the moment is for recreation only; perhaps a few bad days trucking would end up souring my relationship with my S60 too, as driving currently forms the basis of only my best and most memorable days.

It's even hard to find a vehicle that suits - try and find a manual gearbox FH, there are only a handful advertised at any time, almost all of them fitted for tipping/heavy haul. I'd want to run a manual Volvo on general distribution, preferably a late third-gen FH Euro 5, but there aren't any. Euro 6 fourth-gen FH units with manuals are practically non-existent on the market, then Volvo started saying "you can't have one" after 2017.

Even assuming I found a way to exit my business, opted for a career change, found a truck, and got on the road, how many years before it becomes impractical/uneconomical to run a Euro5/6 vehicle? It would be the worst thing to me, having to sell/scrap a usable vehicle which I'd made my living in, based on legislation, because for me the job would be a life and centred on the vehicle. Euro 7 is on the way, probably something non-diesel and nasty after that, tractor units are getting ever more electronic with digital dashboards and mirror cams... none of that appeals to me. If I could be sure I could drive a diesel with a proper gearbox and real mirrors for years to come, I'd be seriously looking at getting in the industry, but steering a mirrorless automatic about just doesn't interest me. I admire and aspire to drive the current-gen vehicles but the next-gen vehicles and emissions laws have driven me away from pursuing it as a full-time role.

I do intend to get my license soonish and am pinching myself for not doing it sooner as hauliers in my area are advertising a lot of casual positions, almost looking desperate in some cases. Now I'd be waiting weeks or months to get a test though, by which time the opportunities could be gone. I like the idea of an odd run at the weekend... but then you've got the 35 hours of CPC to keep a license I'd barely use. Nonetheless if the government follows through on suggestions of combining the C and C+E tests, I may finally get my license as that would be one obstacle removed.

I do wonder if I made the wrong career choice, I do almost envy the owner drivers who spend their lives on the roads in older Volvos, but I know I'm also only seeing the good bits and with transport vehicles, nothing can be taken for granted in the current climate of supply chain chaos and environmental lobbying. It seems very high risk to enter the industry, then have it all snatched away when they take our diesels.

My first love is music and records, CDs etc. and, realising this, I started a career in the music industry after graduating from university. I worked for record wholesalers and trade papers, and I ran a mobile disco on the side.

The end result is that it became all business and no fun. When I listened to music it was too work out what new singles would sell and what tracks I should play at my gigs. And at the wholesalers, it was all about business and product, and I might as well have been selling shoes.

In short, music became a chore. There was no passion.

By the age of thirty, I worked this out and switched careers to IT where, eventually, I found a way to enjoy myself at work without it feeling like a chore. Music, reverted to being a hobby and a passion, and all of the joy returned.

You sound like a really sussed guy who is able to look far ahead. This skill is essential in software development if you are to design versatile and robust software that doesn't disappear up its own a*se every now and then.

So, when you look ahead, also consider how you will feel when you are living with the consequences of your career decisions.

In short, whatever you choose to do, try and make sure that it will allow you to maintain the passion that you feel.

[Cull06]

“There is no fuel shortage!” said the government, just as they suspend competition law to boost supplies.

“This has nothing to do with Brexit!!” said the government, just as they do the normal Boris u-turn and undo the Brexit-induced restriction on hgv drivers coming over here to work.

Boys many of us saw this coming. In fact I think we all saw this coming. Just that some of us here are that invested in our decisions which brought all of this about that we/they won’t face reality on what they’ve done.

I work in supply chain. This is going to get worse in the short and medium turn.

Anyone who tells you this is a global thing is gaslighting you. Yes it’s not just the U.K. with hgv driver shortages. But it’s only the U.K. in the mess ahead of you. It’s only the U.K. having to revise down our economic growth to make up for the shortages.

You can either see it for what it is. Or bury your head in the sand.

Or just chuckle about it I guess!

Enjoy boys 👍

[Cull06]

In fact.

Lol

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by Cull06

“There is no fuel shortage!” said the government, just as they suspend competition law to boost supplies.

“This has nothing to do with Brexit!!” said the government, just as they do the normal Boris u-turn and undo the Brexit-induced restriction on hgv drivers coming over here to work.

Boys many of us saw this coming. In fact I think we all saw this coming. Just that some of us here are that invested in our decisions which brought all of this about that we/they won’t face reality on what they’ve done.

I work in supply chain. This is going to get worse in the short and medium turn.

Anyone who tells you this is a global thing is gaslighting you. Yes it’s not just the U.K. with hgv driver shortages. But it’s only the U.K. in the mess ahead of you. It’s only the U.K. having to revise down our economic growth to make up for the shortages.

You can either see it for what it is. Or bury your head in the sand.

Or just chuckle about it I guess!

Enjoy boys 👍

There’s always 2 sides... they last suspended competition laws in the Covid bogrollgate so competing supermarkets could collude to ensure that there were vital supplies in all areas from at least one store.

It’s the same here, panic buying whipped up by our click bate gutter press in turn fanned by bad news sells gullible readers has created a totally unnecessary short term situation. Near us in East Yorkshire probably half or more of the petrol stations had run out of something, if not all fuel, by Saturday lunchtime. By Sunday night most had got deliveries and I’d say normality had returned with no queues. They will now have a quiet week as everyone has a full tank. No one is using more fuel, just that the balance of where it is in the supply chain has shifted from the depots and forecourt tanks to out car tanks.

And the reason there is talk of the Army being used to deliver fuel (I haven’t actually seen that on a official government statement yet) is to do that and other hazardous cargo an ADR qualified driver is required.

There is no shortage of fuel, just a shortage of brain cells amongst the journalists and some sections of the populous. We may have a shortage of HGV drivers now but that’s a headache from why some people would say brexit was the right thing - we were overdependent on goods and services from other nations just as Germany is getting shafted by Russia on gas.

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by Familyman 90

Some maths reveals some interesting aspects.

300,000 HGV licence holders of working age in the UK.

The industry currently employs about 150,000.

That leaves 150,000 with licences who are not working in the industry.

Now, lets be generous and suggest that a third of them are unavailable due to ill health, etc.

That leaves 100,000 licenced drivers who are not diriving lorries. Coincidentally, the UK is short of up to (depending on who's numbers you believe) 100,000 drivers. 100,000 drivers - 100,000 vancancies.

So there is a 100,000 driver shortage, yet there are 100,000 drivers who aren't driving. I'm not the sharpest knife in the cutlery drawer (I stopped at my Masters) but for the life of me I can't see what that has to do with the 'B' word. I think it far more likely those 100,000 aren't filling the gap because of crap conditions, dire hours, and the need to regularly pee in a bottle.

You can't use any HGV driver to make fuel deliveries. It's a dangerous cargo and requires the driver to also have the correct additional ADR licence

[Othen]

Originally Posted by volvo again

The moronic panic buyers are creating the shortage, if they had been sensible and just bought their usual amount things would be okay
There have been photo's on social media of people filling up 8 petrol cans, why did the petrol station owners allow this ??

Absolutely right!

I happened to be at our local shopping plaza this morn, just opposite the car park is an Adsa gas station, which had a queue outside it. Having nothing much to do for 20 minutes I walked from the car park over to the gas station to observe for a while (this would have been after 09:00 - so most people were at work).

I'd say the average fill was less that £10 -so less than 2 gallons, apart from one builder's flatbed nearly all the other cars I saw fill up were driven by either old people (pension age) or women (I can't know of course, but if I was a betting man I'd say all on their way back from dropping Crispin and Jessica at school) panic buying the odd 6 litres of fuel to top up after the weekend - and creating both a queue and shortage.

So... my own little bit of research, nothing to do with the media opinion or politicians, is that this situation is entirely self generated. I suspect people will get bored with topping up their Ford Focus 4 times per week by about Friday and we'll get back to normal.

This reminds me of people buying 150 toilet rolls at a time last year (I'm guessing those people are still using the same toilet rolls now). Just people: nothing much to do with the government, BREXIT, coronavirus or whatever.

Ho hum.

[DaveNP]

Originally Posted by ilmiont

HGV driving has long interested me and I still regularly reconsider my career choice. Since I left school I've been running my own software development business, which is now enjoying some degree of success, but after a hard day I end up trying to work out how I could get into driving instead.

The trouble for me with entering HGVs now isn't really the tests, theory, or working conditions - it's the future. I'm 22 now and I could have a few good years on the road but I don't see myself being satisfied driving something electric and semi-autonomous in a few more years time.

Really my dream is to make a living as an owner driver but looking at the practicalities it doesn't look like something I could sustain long-term. With reluctance I've conceded it's not worth destroying what I've built so far if I can't guarantee it will satisfy me in another decade. ...

I'll declare at the start that I'm a miserable old cynic who's been an HGV driver for 35 years but I would say in the strongest terms don't throw away your IT business for some dream of truck driving and certainly take off the rose tinted specs about being an owner driver in a nice old FH.
The biggest problem in the transport industry is the headlong rush to the bottom, the big companies have subbed out their transport as there's always someone to offer to do it for less, they in turn sub out as much of the operation as they can to someone else willing to do it for less who then subs it out again to someone willing to do it for less etc etc, as an owner operator you're at the end of that foodchain desperately taking the scraps the bigger boys leave behind, last I knew the two businesses with the highest failure rate of startups were Restaurants (cos I love to cook) and Transport (cos I love to drive). There was a catchphrase in transport 'if the wheels ain't turning the truck ain't earning' but many small operators have found some jobs cost more in diesel and time than the rate that is being offered.
MIrrorless 'automatics' are the current gen, manual FH's are the generation before the previous one, and something that old will probably already be banned from going inside the M25, you may not want to go to London but that's where 10% of the UK population live and buy stuff, you can't afford to cut yourself off from 10% of the marketplace. A classic FH may look cool and a fortune spent on alloy wheels and shiny exhaust stacks make them look even better but when you're on your 5th night away in a week it becomes your prison not your limo.
If you've got the cash to spare by all means get an HGV licence (and the CPC) and do some shifts on an agency, there is a great deal of satisfaction in being able to pilot a vehicle 20 times the size of a car on the same roads and into places some car and van drivers would baulk at. And then perhaps take that experience and look at the need for software in the transport sector, we currently suffer from a lot of computerisation with software written by people who don't seem to have a clue what actually happens, that's not their fault as they write the programmes they are asked for with the information they are given, I've lost count of the times I've had to point out to my supervisor that their Drivers' hours monitoring programme is only applying the most basic of the rules. In fairness I once tried to explain drivers' hours rules to a friend with a Masters in AI, and before I got to the good bits a look of confusion crossed his face and he asked incredulously 'And are you supposed to remember all of that?' to whch I replied 'Yep, forwards backwards and sideways, and all while I'm driving'.
I suspect the next generation of trucks will move ever closer to self driving and someone who can write software and actually drive a truck, especially an artic, may be able to add a lot of value to that process.