240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Othen]

Good afternoon chaps,

I really shouldn't keep fiddling with the Royal Barge, I should just enjoy my motor car as John tells me to. Anyway, it was a nice day and I had nothing else to do after throwing a ball for Bob, so I tried out the little coolant sniffer device that arrived in the mail a few days ago. It seemed okay cold, but with the engine warmed up the fluid started to turn yellow, indicating combustion gasses in the coolant. It looks like the head gasket is on its way out.

To gather a bit more evidence I repeated the compression test I did a couple of weeks ago, but this time properly with the engine warm (well, tepid, I wasn't going to put my hand on an exhaust header at 300C), the fuel line plugged and the throttle open and got (1-4):

110/135/130/140 PSI.

I think last time (engine cold, throttle closed) it was:

122/112/112/120 PSI

So, the good news is that 2, 3 and 4 are in very good health, whereas the front cylinder has dropped - my supposition is the gasket is leaking into the waterway when warm.

The Royal Barge is still running well, but this issue isn't going to fix itself.

Okay, no big problem. By chance I have a NOS head gasket set I picked up for a tenner last week on the way. I might as well change the cam belt at the same time (and get you chaps off my back for not changing the perfectly serviceable belt at the same time).

Fortunately I'm not busy with anything else at the mo :-)

Stay safe,

Alan

[Othen]

Cam belt ordered... a Volvo one from Parts Monster for less than £15, one can't grumble about that.

The Royal Barge is certainly keeping me busy! If I'd bought it as a commuter and relied on it to get to work I'd be cross, but as it is I don't mind too much. This is one of those perspective and engineering understanding issues we were discussing earlier today.

If I can change the head gasket plus the cam belt for £25 worth of parts and a day of my time that is fine in the perspective of this car, and my engineering understanding is that whilst I could probably drive the Royal Barge as it is for quite a while, it isn't going to get better on its own.

Stay safe,

:-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Good afternoon chaps,

I really shouldn't keep fiddling with the Royal Barge, I should just enjoy my motor car as John tells me to. Anyway, it was a nice day and I had nothing else to do after throwing a ball for Bob, so I tried out the little coolant sniffer device that arrived in the mail a few days ago. It seemed okay cold, but with the engine warmed up the fluid started to turn yellow, indicating combustion gasses in the coolant. It looks like the head gasket is on its way out.

To gather a bit more evidence I repeated the compression test I did a couple of weeks ago, but this time properly with the engine warm (well, tepid, I wasn't going to put my hand on an exhaust header at 300C), the fuel line plugged and the throttle open and got (1-4):

110/135/130/140 PSI.

I think last time (engine cold, throttle closed) it was:

122/112/112/120 PSI

So, the good news is that 2, 3 and 4 are in very good health, whereas the front cylinder has dropped - my supposition is the gasket is leaking into the waterway when warm.

The Royal Barge is still running well, but this issue isn't going to fix itself.

Okay, no big problem. By chance I have a NOS head gasket set I picked up for a tenner last week on the way. I might as well change the cam belt at the same time (and get you chaps off my back for not changing the perfectly serviceable belt at the same time).

Fortunately I'm not busy with anything else at the mo :-)

Stay safe,

Alan

That's a bit of a bummer Alan! Are you going to lap the valves in while you're at it? If so do you have a valve spring compressor and if not, i have one you'd be welcome to borrow.

Might also pay to have the head skimmed, it might be slightly distorted or perhaps pitted from corrosion in that area around #1 combustion chamber.

It could be as a direct result from a previous overheat and that's why the PO mutilated the 'stat so it didn't get hot. Sadly that might in fact have caused the problem by allowing the head to heat unevenly and distort as a result.
Given the temp gauge was giving strange results he may have only thought it was overheating and wrecked the 'stat as a result.

In this case, fiddling was highly justified and although brought an undesirable result, it was a lot more desirable than taking the RB on a long run and having it happen then!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

That's a bit of a bummer Alan! Are you going to lap the valves in while you're at it? If so do you have a valve spring compressor and if not, i have one you'd be welcome to borrow.

Might also pay to have the head skimmed, it might be slightly distorted or perhaps pitted from corrosion in that area around #1 combustion chamber.

It could be as a direct result from a previous overheat and that's why the PO mutilated the 'stat so it didn't get hot. Sadly that might in fact have caused the problem by allowing the head to heat unevenly and distort as a result.
Given the temp gauge was giving strange results he may have only thought it was overheating and wrecked the 'stat as a result.

In this case, fiddling was highly justified and although brought an undesirable result, it was a lot more desirable than taking the RB on a long run and having it happen then!

It would make sense to only do this job once Dave, so I'm toying with the idea of replacing the head with a reconditioned one. I think I know somewhere that will sell me a completely reconditioned head for £100 plus shipping, I'd just have to swap over the camshaft (which would be easy on the bench).

What do you think? For an extra £130 including some shipping shall I do that as well? It might be no more expensive than having the head checked and skimmed (and I suppose if it is okay I could probably get £50 for the old head)?

In perspective: I could probably change the head, gasket and cam belt for £160 and a day of my time.

Stay safe,

Alan

PS. I agree it is a bummer, but I'm glad I found out on the drive rather than the dual carriageway!

[Stephen Edwin]

Othen. I'm sorry you have concerns about the head gasket.

Coolant sniffer? I missed that if it was mentioned before. Is that an exhaust analiser or a specific gizmo? Please.

If you are convinced re the head gasket then with your expertise it will be a simple job. A useful "trick" is to use a tap to clean the threads in the block for the head bolts, and re fit with a good amount of engine oil. I mention that despite is must be a be a basic point because. Well I never found that necessary on the old OHV engines so that is new to me. On my 240 the head bolts were horribly tight and needed thread cleaning and good oiling.

Machining the head. I see this as simple. If in doubt get the head checked. On mine, it needed a little welding. Perhaps coolant additive including anti-corrosive had been neglected by a previous owner?

Cambelt. Well this is a good opportunity to change it yes. I for one was never on your back, I just expressed an opinion. I'd rather watch your back than be on it. Ty. You didn't like the paddle own canoe expression. It is only saying, each to their own opinion and decision &c.

Hoses If doing the HG. Do consider the pesky little heater hoses. Highly likely to be old and ready to fail. And a bit of a bogger to get at.

If you change the HG ... enjoy ... and stay safe.



Comrade Stephen Edwin



.

[Stephen Edwin]

P.S.

My local engine engineers would say quickly for free if the head needs work or needs replacing. And if work is needed give a quote. And. Remember. If you buy another head, it might have its own problems ....

Stay safe.


Comrade Stephen Edwin

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

It would make sense to only do this job once Dave, so I'm toying with the idea of replacing the head with a reconditioned one. I think I know somewhere that will sell me a completely reconditioned head for £100 plus shipping, I'd just have to swap over the camshaft (which would be easy on the bench).

What do you think? For an extra £130 including some shipping shall I do that as well? It might be no more expensive than having the head checked and skimmed (and I suppose if it is okay I could probably get £50 for the old head)?

In perspective: I could probably change the head, gasket and cam belt for £160 and a day of my time.

Stay safe,

Alan

PS. I agree it is a bummer, but I'm glad I found out on the drive rather than the dual carriageway!

You'd also need to adjust the valve clearances Alan for which you'd need a micrometer and a lot of patience! Maybe some shims as well to get the right clearances.

I think i'd remove the head first and see what it's like, a skim was about £35 some years back when i enquired, possibly gone up now but not by much i wouldn't have thought.

[Othen]

Well, I've answered my own question again and ordered a reconditioned head from a company in Bristol for only £99 + £30 shipping. I think that is a bargain and saves me having to send the old one out some place to have it checked and skimmed:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-B21...53.m1438.l2649

I've just had a look at it, and compared with a modern car it should be trivial. It looks like the whole of the induction manifold/carburettor etc will come off in one lump and there should be room to tie it to the left side with a bit of string, ditto the exhaust manifold on the right side. That just leaves the pulleys and belts to come off.

Swapping the camshaft should be easy on the bench, it is only SOHC and 8v, which is simple compared with most bikes. I have not looked at the Book of Haynes yet, I'm guessing there are shims in the followers, so I may have to order some once I've fitted the shaft (or maybe I'll be lucky and be able to juggle around the old ones - I've done that on bikes before).

Actually, although it is a bummer, I'm quite looking forward to getting this sorted. I'll know everything is good, and in the perspective of a long term ownership classic car spending £153.90 on bits to get a new head and cam belt is just fine.

Stay safe,

Alan

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Stephen Edwin

Othen. I'm sorry you have concerns about the head gasket.

Coolant sniffer? I missed that if it was mentioned before. Is that an exhaust analiser or a specific gizmo? Please.

Comrade Stephen Edwin

.

... simple chemical tester, the liquid goes yellow with CO/CO2:



Monty Python: simple but effective, press the button and it vomits :-)

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

You'd also need to adjust the valve clearances Alan for which you'd need a micrometer and a lot of patience! Maybe some shims as well to get the right clearances.

I think i'd remove the head first and see what it's like, a skim was about £35 some years back when i enquired, possibly gone up now but not by much i wouldn't have thought.

See below regarding valve clearances Dave. I'm guessing it is the bucket and shim type - I've done them on bikes (in fact on my Triumph just last week, but after measuring it didn't need shimming).

I have a micrometer, but surely one would use a feeler gauge to check the clearances with the shaft fitted, then add shims to suit. Maybe I'll be lucky and be able to juggle the old ones around to fit so all 8 are within tolerance (that has happened previously with bike engines, they tend to be DOHC and have 16 valves (20 on a Yamaha)).

Stay safe.