Engine 850: B5234T/2.3/20v/T5: Starting issue

[Chris_Rogers]

To get the codes to reset you have to push the button for the second time before the LED goes out, so you need to react quickly when the LED comes back on hit the button and hold for more than 5 secs. When you release the button after 5 secs you should hear the fuel pump start and run for a few seconds.

[Jod T5]

Originally Posted by Chris_Rogers

To get the codes to reset you have to push the button for the second time before the LED goes out, so you need to react quickly when the LED comes back on hit the button and hold for more than 5 secs. When you release the button after 5 secs you should hear the fuel pump start and run for a few seconds.

cheers chris....great advise from the man who knows....as usual
cheers
jod

[stuartvolvo]

Hi again guys,

although the car seems to be starting great when cold, she still seems to take a bit of cranking when warm / hot. I found that one of the codes was that there was a faulty temperature sensor, which i have not replaced. I still need to go and get the codes cleared again, although i did notice that the other code that was showing was the Evap Valve Faulty. Would this cause any problems with starting when warm / hot.
Where is the EVAP Valve exactly and does anybody have any pictures of it, to make it easier for me to find. Also i noticed that there are two small conector blocks behind the inlet manifold. Does anybody know what these are for and where they go to?

Any help on this subject would be appreciated.

[Jod T5]

Originally Posted by stuartvolvo

Hi again guys,

although the car seems to be starting great when cold, she still seems to take a bit of cranking when warm / hot. I found that one of the codes was that there was a faulty temperature sensor, which i have not replaced. I still need to go and get the codes cleared again, although i did notice that the other code that was showing was the Evap Valve Faulty. Would this cause any problems with starting when warm / hot.
Where is the EVAP Valve exactly and does anybody have any pictures of it, to make it easier for me to find. Also i noticed that there are two small conector blocks behind the inlet manifold. Does anybody know what these are for and where they go to?

Any help on this subject would be appreciated.

hi stu, morning...
the evap system im not sure would be able to differenciate between a hot or cold engine as say the temp sender would....however..poor drivability, stalling and dodgy idle can be as a result of a blocked/leaky evap system....there are two types of evap valve fitted..vacuum or electonic..., the vacuum one is positioned on top of the carbon cannister, which is in turn located under the n/s front wheelarch...the electronic ones are "in line" and if you trace the pipe from the canister you will come accross it.....one last thing to check is the fuel filler cap for a damaged seal...try running the car without the cap..you may have a vacuum in there...(bb54 wayne is having this problem at the moment)....
engine block under i/m....there are two outlets which relate to the pcv system and there are also two knock sensors....

onwards and upwards....
cheers
jod

[stuartvolvo]

Thanks for that jod. The only reason that i asked about the evap was that a code for the evap valve was brought up when i got briam to read my codes for me, although the car runs perfically and isles like it was brand new, so i think that it might just be a old code.
I am still getting the problem, starting when hot. As i have said she starts first time now that i fixed the earth lead. Just when hot she seems to take longer cranking, as if too much fuel is getting injected, what also made sence with the faulty temperature sensor code. Since i have replaced the temperature sensor, i have not got around to clearing the codes yet, so it might help when i get that done.

Cheers for your help as always

Stuart

[bb54]

hi stu, the evap valve on my 96 T5 is under the plastic air ducting from behind the grille to air box.
unclip the connector as the ducting enters the engine bay(just after rad),
silver cylider with an elec connector.

wayne

[stuartvolvo]

Thanks bb54. I have recieved my VOL-FCR software and read all devices. I found a couple of codes but nothing that would cause this starting issue. Anyway i cleared the codes and they have not reaperared so i think that they might have been old codes.
Anyway, i was speaking to a good friend that i have not seen for a while, who used to be a mechanic. We were leaving his work at the same time, and as i went to start my car, the usuall happened. Excessive vranking on the first turn of the key. As it was cranking over, he quickly went to the exhaust and had a smell around as it then started and blew the exhaust in his face (LMAO). Anyway he took the car for a quick drive and checked it out. He said that he think the problem is definatley the lamda sensor.
He said that there are several point pointing to this.

1. Lamda light was on when i first got the car back although went out after a good run.
2. When cranking over there is no smell of petrol although the pressure at the rail is ok.
3. When car is pushed or towed it will start straight away.
4. When cranking over the ecu checks for signals from the lamda sensor RPM sensor and camshaft sensor.

If the lamda sensor is faulty, it is not sensing properely and therefor not injecting the right amount of fuel when trying to start.

I am really wanting to think if you lot agree before i go and buy a new one, although i have replaced everything else and thinking about it, this does make sense.

Regards
Stuart

[ShadeTek]

Hi Stuart, I'm might be wrong, but I'm fairly sure the Lambda sensor is not required until the car is up to temperature. The ECU runs on a preset map which keeps the engine happy, but only when cruising does the Lambda come into its own.

[stuartvolvo]

The car usually starts fine when cold now, maybee takes a wee bit of extra cranking from time to time. Always when hot though it really needs a lot of extra cranking to start. I am also reaplaced the temperature sensor. It runs fine, but only seems to struggle to start when warm or hot. The other day when cranking over when hot, we could not smell any petrol coming through the exhaust which you would usually get, as if the fuel was not getting injected from the rail into the engine. From what i have found out so far it is the lamda sensor that can cuase this although i might be wrong.

Does anybody else have any other ideas.
Regards
Stuart

[DLM48]

Originally Posted by stuartvolvo

< SNIP> He said that he think the problem is definatley the lamda sensor. He said that there are several point pointing to this.

1. Lamda light was on when i first got the car back although went out after a good run.
2. When cranking over there is no smell of petrol although the pressure at the rail is ok.
3. When car is pushed or towed it will start straight away.
4. When cranking over the ecu checks for signals from the lamda sensor RPM sensor and camshaft sensor.

If the lamda sensor is faulty, it is not sensing properely and therefor not injecting the right amount of fuel when trying to start.

I am really wanting to think if you lot agree before i go and buy a new one, although i have replaced everything else and thinking about it, this does make sense.

Regards
Stuart

CANT BE TRUE - if the ECU looks at these three items/sensors for good signals before it will start the engine - then these signals must be there and 100% OK when the engine turns over with the ignition on - as the car will start with a push - cant see how the Lambada sensor will know the car is getting a push start - can you get your friend to explan how it knows this and it suddenly repairs itself - and why the car runs fine once it is started without generating a Lambada fault - can i save you and him the trouble - totally not possible.

VERY CONFUSED as to why you are still going down this route as you have proved categorically that the problem when it wont start warm is - NO SPARK - when turning the engine over using the starter motor

Something is upsetting the ECU when you use the starter when the engine is warm - we have proved categorically that if you try to start on the key the car wont start on the starter - BUT if you dont crank the starter but turn the engine over with an in gear push/tow - it will start instantly - as well as that the engine runs like a dream 100% of the time once it is started - so ALL of your engine managment systems and sensors are functioning OK.

You have EMI/RFI interference from the starter motor swamping the ECU - why this does this intermittently and only when warm i have no idea - but i am 100% sure that is the problem - and i have given you the fix too - that is split the engine and gearbox - clean the flanges/faces between the engine and gearbox to a spotlessly clean finish then connect them back up. That may sound very illogical - but it totally fits in with this problem arriving with a s/h engine being fitted and the junction between the engine and the gearbox being dirty - As you know i have been here got the T shirt the Video and the DVD - my car played a leading role in the long long running film "850 wont start on the key" and i am now writing the book - with the fix.

Clean these flanges - it works and will fix this problem.