Car parking penalty notice - Page 9

Lancee · Sep 19th, 2022, 19:02

I admit I have only looked at this matter briefly. A couple of observations, likely flawed, so maybe more like a few opinions ?

From your point of view if you win you save, is it £35.00 ? Plus some offset expenses ? On a personal level you also get to feel vindicated ? A small victory for the little man (no offence intended).

If you lose then it's going to cost you an awful lot more, added to your costs and time to date. Not least how are your personal feelings going to fare ?

From the companies point of view if you win, the company concerned will just soak it up and carry on as normal. Just another operating cost. With no personal involvement on any individuals part. They get to go home and sleep.
If you lose, they will still soak it up as just another operating cost. They get to go home and sleep.

If you were fighting a class action which might have some affect on their future behaviour to all then that would be different.

It's just the way the system works, and the way it is biased (so we pay up). I don't like it any more than you might, but IMHO I view these things as a matter of investment and return. I don't see the level of investment related to the, only potential remember, return worth taking up any more of my day than absolutely necessary. There are more profitable matters to spend my time on, and my sanity matters to both me and the others around me.

Therefore pay (or get your Son to ?) the fine, put it down to experience, and sleep the sleep of the Gods

rowdy · Sep 19th, 2022, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by XC90Mk1

I have done some looking into small claims court in the past. And I am no expert at all. However my understanding is that you don’t receive full wages, expenses and such that make it ‘worth while’ I understand you get some costs to tide you over.

In reality as you say there is principle. Firstly the company may not want to attend, it may not be enforced etc etc. but let’s be clear.

Your time is now to take on the parking companies that rip people off. Your chance to take on case law and your chance to fight for the little guy.

And if you win, you get £35 quid….. and to be fair, you will likely be out of cost to more than that anyway even is successful.

I would imagine those on here saying ‘take it all the way’ are probably sat at home, at the pub, out walking etc and not actually preparing letters (you won’t get anything back for time drafting etc) for £35.

I have principles as well and if the OP wants to go all out then great. Just be aware you are likly to spend a lot of time for £35.

All my thoughts only.

As the op of the thread, I do have a secret weapon. A friend of ours is a very good barrister, good enough that our government use their services.
My wife did sign something that came to her business address and sent it as it looked official. It was an advertising scam and my wife started receiving demands for thousands of pounds. I think it went as far as debt collection letters but one letter from our friend and we didn’t hear a peep from them again.

XC90Mk1 · Sep 20th, 2022, 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowdy

As the op of the thread, I do have a secret weapon. A friend of ours is a very good barrister, good enough that our government use their services.
My wife did sign something that came to her business address and sent it as it looked official. It was an advertising scam and my wife started receiving demands for thousands of pounds. I think it went as far as debt collection letters but one letter from our friend and we didn’t hear a peep from them again.

That does sound pretty good, there is also the principle of it as well so if you feel that you want to continue then that’s great. I don’t have that option hence would probably have to pay…

Cull06 · Sep 20th, 2022, 10:36

It’s between you and your barrister mate but pulling them in on this semi-trivial matter is a bit much (unless of course something is seriously amiss here).

How long was your son parked in the car park.

What does the signage say in the car park re minimum time before a charge is issued? (There is always a reasonable amount of time allowed for in order to read the signage (I.e for you to decide whether to enter into the contract for parking or not).

Did the company in the notice refer to the protection of freedoms act 2012 (schedule 4) and if so have they abided by it in how they dealt with this?

If your boy parked there and didn’t pay then it’s fair cop. Pay and move on. Wasting your barrister mate’s time on this if it’s fair cop is surely not going to appreciated.

If any of the above is amiss though. Then set out why to them and tell them you will see them in court.

rowdy · Sep 20th, 2022, 14:08

Oh no, that’ll be a last resort. But it’s an option.
All info I’ve put in this thread already but I’ll briefly recap.
Boy got a pcn through the post (car is in my name) said he was parked 10 mins max at 5:07am. Paid the charge.
Get another pcn a month later, pictures look suspiciously the same, time is 5:08 in the morning, but different date. Boy swears he didn’t park there again, so I’m appealing it.

After asking in mse forum it seems APCOA have in the past sent out follow on tickets claiming cars were parked there again when they were not. Even been known to send pcn’s to deceased.

griston64 · Sep 20th, 2022, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancee

I admit I have only looked at this matter briefly. A couple of observations, likely flawed, so maybe more like a few opinions ?

From your point of view if you win you save, is it £35.00 ? Plus some offset expenses ? On a personal level you also get to feel vindicated ? A small victory for the little man (no offence intended).

If you lose then it's going to cost you an awful lot more, added to your costs and time to date. Not least how are your personal feelings going to fare ?

From the companies point of view if you win, the company concerned will just soak it up and carry on as normal. Just another operating cost. With no personal involvement on any individuals part. They get to go home and sleep.
If you lose, they will still soak it up as just another operating cost. They get to go home and sleep.

If you were fighting a class action which might have some affect on their future behaviour to all then that would be different.

It's just the way the system works, and the way it is biased (so we pay up). I don't like it any more than you might, but IMHO I view these things as a matter of investment and return. I don't see the level of investment related to the, only potential remember, return worth taking up any more of my day than absolutely necessary. There are more profitable matters to spend my time on, and my sanity matters to both me and the others around me.

Therefore pay (or get your Son to ?) the fine, put it down to experience, and sleep the sleep of the Gods

It's very rare they will bother taking further action for £35.00 as the cost to them outweighs what they would get back ! I've had two and completely ignored all the threatening letters and heard nothing more. I would not waste my time communicating with these scumbags who prey on fear

eagle58 · Sep 20th, 2022, 19:55

Hi guys, I've put together this response to the rejection of my appeal as follows and I would appreciate any comments:

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN
Dear Sirs

I am disputing your invoice of £60 for alleged breach of your terms and conditions while parked at ................... for the following reasons:

A) The parking bay within which I was parked was only marked on one side and I was parked well within the markings as per your terms and conditions. To suggest a user should have to “imagine” markings that don’t exist is clearly absurd.

B) No notice of the alleged breach was placed upon the vehicle at the time of the alleged breach with your notification being sent through the post many days later. This did not allow me to gather contemporaneous evidence that would clearly show I was not in breach of said terms and conditions.

C) The aforementioned terms and conditions are not posted at eye level nor in a clear enough font to be read at the time of parking, which is possibly in breach of unfair terms in contract legislation.

D) You have constructed a system whereby you are the Plaintiff, Judge, Jury and Appeal Court all in one. At best this is disreputable and at worst, perhaps illegal.

If you continue to pursue this invoice, I shall have no alternative than to pursue a claim within the small claims unit of the County Court for damages.

I await your response within 14 days of this letter after which I shall consider the matter closed.

Yours Faithfully

Thanks for any help!

Cull06 · Sep 20th, 2022, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by griston64

It's very rare they will bother taking further action for £35.00 as the cost to them outweighs what they would get back ! I've had two and completely ignored all the threatening letters and heard nothing more. I would not waste my time communicating with these scumbags who prey on fear

It’s not going to be for £35 by this stage and it can’t be that rare when I personally know two people who had CCJ’s taken out against them for following precisely the advice you are setting out here.

marcb · Sep 20th, 2022, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by eagle58

Hi guys, I've put together this response to the rejection of my appeal as follows and I would appreciate any comments:

I wouldn't send that. If not already mentioned go here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

And start a case there for help.

DoaM · Sep 21st, 2022, 16:11

As above, that response is awful.

For the final time ... go to the NEWBIES announcement thread at MSE Forums; it already has a cut-n-paste appeal template that anyone can use.

Some of the other responses in this thread are equally woeful, and typical misinformed scaremongering.

#OUT

Sep 20th, 2022, 10:36	#84
Cull06 Master Member Last Online: Today 00:34 Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: -	It’s between you and your barrister mate but pulling them in on this semi-trivial matter is a bit much (unless of course something is seriously amiss here). How long was your son parked in the car park. What does the signage say in the car park re minimum time before a charge is issued? (There is always a reasonable amount of time allowed for in order to read the signage (I.e for you to decide whether to enter into the contract for parking or not). Did the company in the notice refer to the protection of freedoms act 2012 (schedule 4) and if so have they abided by it in how they dealt with this? If your boy parked there and didn’t pay then it’s fair cop. Pay and move on. Wasting your barrister mate’s time on this if it’s fair cop is surely not going to appreciated. If any of the above is amiss though. Then set out why to them and tell them you will see them in court. __________________ Polestar Engineered XC60 (MY20)

Sep 21st, 2022, 16:11	#90
DoaM Junior Member Last Online: Jun 13th, 2024 16:48 Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: Strathaven	As above, that response is awful. For the final time ... go to the NEWBIES announcement thread at MSE Forums; it already has a cut-n-paste appeal template that anyone can use. Some of the other responses in this thread are equally woeful, and typical misinformed scaremongering. #OUT __________________ Order cancelled 🙄: V60 T6 Recharge R Design PHEV MY22 Late in Denim Blue

Sep 19th, 2022, 19:02	#81
Lancee Premier Member Last Online: Yesterday 22:49 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Devon	I admit I have only looked at this matter briefly. A couple of observations, likely flawed, so maybe more like a few opinions ? From your point of view if you win you save, is it £35.00 ? Plus some offset expenses ? On a personal level you also get to feel vindicated ? A small victory for the little man (no offence intended). If you lose then it's going to cost you an awful lot more, added to your costs and time to date. Not least how are your personal feelings going to fare ? From the companies point of view if you win, the company concerned will just soak it up and carry on as normal. Just another operating cost. With no personal involvement on any individuals part. They get to go home and sleep. If you lose, they will still soak it up as just another operating cost. They get to go home and sleep. If you were fighting a class action which might have some affect on their future behaviour to all then that would be different. It's just the way the system works, and the way it is biased (so we pay up). I don't like it any more than you might, but IMHO I view these things as a matter of investment and return. I don't see the level of investment related to the, only potential remember, return worth taking up any more of my day than absolutely necessary. There are more profitable matters to spend my time on, and my sanity matters to both me and the others around me. Therefore pay (or get your Son to ?) the fine, put it down to experience, and sleep the sleep of the Gods

Sep 20th, 2022, 14:08	#85
rowdy Senior Member Last Online: Jan 10th, 2024 06:10 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: West Sussex	Oh no, that’ll be a last resort. But it’s an option. All info I’ve put in this thread already but I’ll briefly recap. Boy got a pcn through the post (car is in my name) said he was parked 10 mins max at 5:07am. Paid the charge. Get another pcn a month later, pictures look suspiciously the same, time is 5:08 in the morning, but different date. Boy swears he didn’t park there again, so I’m appealing it. After asking in mse forum it seems APCOA have in the past sent out follow on tickets claiming cars were parked there again when they were not. Even been known to send pcn’s to deceased.

Sep 20th, 2022, 19:55	#87
eagle58 Member Last Online: Yesterday 21:04 Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Redhill	Hi guys, I've put together this response to the rejection of my appeal as follows and I would appreciate any comments: TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN Dear Sirs I am disputing your invoice of £60 for alleged breach of your terms and conditions while parked at ................... for the following reasons: A) The parking bay within which I was parked was only marked on one side and I was parked well within the markings as per your terms and conditions. To suggest a user should have to “imagine” markings that don’t exist is clearly absurd. B) No notice of the alleged breach was placed upon the vehicle at the time of the alleged breach with your notification being sent through the post many days later. This did not allow me to gather contemporaneous evidence that would clearly show I was not in breach of said terms and conditions. C) The aforementioned terms and conditions are not posted at eye level nor in a clear enough font to be read at the time of parking, which is possibly in breach of unfair terms in contract legislation. D) You have constructed a system whereby you are the Plaintiff, Judge, Jury and Appeal Court all in one. At best this is disreputable and at worst, perhaps illegal. If you continue to pursue this invoice, I shall have no alternative than to pursue a claim within the small claims unit of the County Court for damages. I await your response within 14 days of this letter after which I shall consider the matter closed. Yours Faithfully Thanks for any help!

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