Modifications to my V70 T5...

[bobcat]

Hi guys,

just found some dyno plots on volvospeed and they support adams dyno plot.

http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index...opic=22825&hl=

i believe that the car on adams dyno is andy's? and thus would have have some custom tuning to get and even flatter a/f plot than an off the shelf map.

Im saying this as i got to have a look at my mates stand alone ecu that powers his 600bhp supra. You could adjust every possible value and get exactly the curves you want all from a windows based laptop.

>>If you plug in a lower value for the BSFC like say 0.4 with
>53
>>psi, the stock injectors are adequate for 250 bhp and right
>up
>>to 360 bhp! Go the other way on the BSFC, and the injectors
>>fall short of stock power even more.
>
>Why are you using a spurious value of 0.4 when it clearly
>states on the website that for turbo charged vehicles, it lies
>between 0.6 and 0.65? From your experience, coupled with
>information from Volvo and proper use of the various equations
>available, I'm sure you can work out that the information is
>in fact correct.
>
>>I can only come to one conclusion here - such web sites are
>>indeed not to be taken as gospel, but rather with a huge
>pile
>>of salt.
>>
>>Adam.

Pyapp, <--section edited by admin-->, cos I already used 0.65 in page 3 of this thread to show you that the injectors are still not adequate for the stock car. I even plugged the same numbers in for 65 psi, and surprise - still not adequate! But just in case you genuinely have forgotten, here's the results again -

Power required = 250 bhp
Injectors = 5
BSFC = 0.65
Duty Cycle = 0.8 (80%)
Fuel Pressure = 53 psi

The web site says I need 387 cc injectors for a stock 250 bhp, so obviously complete garbage for a stock 850R with 350 cc injectors.

Power required = 250 bhp
Injectors = 5
BSFC = 0.65
Duty Cycle = 0.8 (80%)
Fuel Pressure = 65 psi

The web site says I need 349 cc injectors for a stock 250 bhp, so again a load of old rubbish because that's only just adequate with no room for error, and certainly no room for tuning which we all know is possible with ECU upgrade only.

How many times do I have to show these values before you accept this? You keep going round in circles determined to try and get this to work, whereas I've given multiple examples of where it goes wrong!

>
>Its funny you say that because for reasons known only unto
>yourselves, both Liam and yourself have used wholly inaccurate
>values of at least one variable (fuel pressure), to formulate
>your conclusions and subequently slate the accuracy of the
>wesbite on a public forum; unless of course your experience
>has shown that Volvo cars genuinely run 43psi at the fuel rail
>(stock or tuned) at maximum boost.
>

Well, as demonstrated above, I've publicly entered **your** values for fuel pressure, and still the web site is wrong. It's not me doing the slating...

Adam.

Pyaap, you also stated earlier that you're not a tuner or an automotive engineer...

Now, edited by admin.

Adam.

[Dan F]

Sorry Alastair, I originally asked you about your injectors but it fired up this really rather good (so far, notwithstanding some of the usual tennis going on.... ;-) ) debate about tuning and injector flow rates.....

Anyway, I will ask around again as no-one has actually answered.....

* What *does* BSFC stand for?
* What flow rate are the green injectors?
* Are the white ones 350cc?
* Are the blue ones 395 cc?
* Why do Volvo use green injectors on the V70R AWD if the blue ones would be adequate?

Plus a couple more:

* Aren't modern engines designed to run on the lean side to aid in lowering emissions?
* why wouldn't a company like Volvo use injectors that are only just enough, as they do not intend their cars to be tuned, or indeed condone any tuning of their cars of any sort?

Devils advocate in a way, but hell, I want answers! lol :-)

Later,
Dan.

[Dan F]

Another one...

* What injectors do the V/S70R cars use? (The cars with 18T turbos).

Dan.

Hi Dan,

I'll answer the questions below because the other questions I'll leave for anyone who wants to look it up on the net...

>* Aren't modern engines designed to run on the lean side to
>aid in lowering emissions?

Amongst other things, yes.

>* why wouldn't a company like Volvo use injectors that are
>only just enough, as they do not intend their cars to be
>tuned, or indeed condone any tuning of their cars of any
>sort?

Well, you'll find that no component in the engine is just enough. The injectors are larger than they need to be, the rods are stronger than they need to be, the turbo is larger than it needs to be, etc etc etc.

It's called over-engineering!

Adam.

[pyaap]

Liam,

You may infer what you wish but I was merely pointing out that both you and Adam used inaccurate values, in his case 43psi, and in your case 3 bar, to arrive at wrong conclusions. I do not understand how this automatically means that you are both collaborating. Hence I have no cause to believe that an apology of any sort is due.

To be honest, there's no need for any colaboration on this thread. Only science and experience are required to prove the case.

Adam.

[pyaap]

>Pyapp, you've either got a short memory or you're on drugs,
>Adam.

There's no need to resort to personal and direct insults Adam; I have no wish for this to degenerate to that. If this is how you resort to debating a point, I have nothing further to say to you on this matter.

[Traduk]

On a hot day like today it is hardly worth getting hot under the collar about but the use of plural in a singular observation is almost certain to lead to a conclusion which in this case is wholly inaccurate.

>>Its funny you say that because for reasons known only unto yourselves, both Liam and yourself have used wholly inaccurate values of at least one variable (fuel pressure),<<

Read it again and note that you not only grouped us but named me.

BTW of all the places I found info on pressures, one was Volvospeed in bay 13. Under injection info he lists a fair number of the older 850 injectors + flow rates + KPA + PSI's for the fuel rails. Most are 43 PSI but there is an odd one out. 43PSI is about 2.96BAR but 3 seemed like a nice round number :-)

Any truly meaningful information is difficult to find and I am now giving up searching. I was satisfied before, I am satisfied now that my car was\is running exactly as I wanted and expected. Your posting was interesting inasmuch as looked as though it was going to highlight a lot of issues. Unfortunately or fortunately it was all for nothing as the basics are flawed in some way.