General Volvos and chip fat

[tfb]

Most of my journeys are 90 mile (each way) trips to work, the rest of the journeys are 15 mile minimum. The old Bosch nozzles were nice and clean, a little bit of blackening around the nose but that was it.

I am fairly sure that it was the dodgy washers that allowed the combustion gasses and materials blow back up between the outer body of the injector and the nozzle body, thus acounting for the amount of deposits on the Elsbett nozzle bodies.

The two inectors with Bosch nozzles stayed clean after a 5min warm up and then 10 mile drive (my around the block trip). That was with all the original washers in.

Yep, I agree a decent set of injectors should be by 1st thing. I will try refitting all the Bosch nozzles tomorrow and see how it goes and also ring up a few places and get some prices for an exchange set of injectors...expecting about £200-250 for a set

Still, if you are going to bugger around with your car and try and make it run on things it was never meant to then you have to be prepared for it to go wrong!

Regards
TFB

[tfb]

Right, all the Bosch nozzles are back in the injectors and the injectors are fitted. Idle RPM is back up to about 700 (still a bit lower than before) and it's a lot less lumpy.

I've still got fuel weeping out of one body, but nothing compared to what it was before. The heatshield washer on No. 6 injector doesn't seem to be sealing fully though. Which is not suprising when you consider how many times the injectors have been in and out over the last few days.

I've ordered a set of exchange injectors from United Diesel for £175, including (hopefuly correct) washers and return postage. With any luck they should be here on Wednesday and I can get it back to running as it was!

From then on I'll fit it out as a twin tank system. I know the engine will run on 100% SVO when warm and all this faffing around with the injectors has been a bit of a waste of time and money.

Still, I have already saved about £1000 by running a Volvo on 50/50 instead of the BMW on petrol!

Regards

TFB
Regards
TFB

[jor]

I think gsf do them on an exchange basis for about £30 each, but can't remember if that includes vat. You will get a full set of nozzles from germany for £60 plus post, but can't swear to this as something may have got lost in translation.

john

[tfb]

I got quotes from about £25 to £40 each, quotes were for a set not each so figures are rough. United Diesel were the only ones who had them in stock and were around the middle of the price range and they sounded nice and helpful on the 'phone.
Hopefuly I should have them on Wendesday and I'll have some time to fit them.

Regards
TFB

[DLM48]

just picked up this thread again after not being on the site for a few days 1200 new posts OUCH!!!

it sounds like you have been in the wars with your injectors - seems like if it is not broke dont try and fix it seems about right. Having been thinking about the big picture and not worrying too much about your present difficulties i have come to the conclusion that a twin tank solution is 'perhaps' the only way to run on 100% SVO.

MY thinking!!!

I dont care how much you heat SVO heat the SVO in the tank along the fuel pipes and in the filter BUT if you have a cold engine the minute that SVO gets into the IP it will loose lots of heat and its viscosity will increase proportionally - i would suggest quite a bit - so if you are not going to use an engine preheater there is no way i can see that you can get the IP up to temperature 'quickly' yes you can heat the pipes from the IP to the injectors but you are still going to have a cold IP. Now this is NOT critical as the Volvo/VW IP will still work with cold SVO so that any heating you do with the SVO will have a positive benefit BUT i think that IF you believe that HOT SVO with a similar viscosity is 'the way to go' then all your preheating is going to be negated to a large extent with a cold IP.

I think that we need to do a lot more experimenting well i do to understand what the issues are here probably some temperature probes to get some real time visibility of what is going on. Remember in theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

comments?

regards

[tfb]

I am coming to same conclusion about twin-tanking.

From my experiments so far the major problem I have had with 100% SVO is cold starting. 50/50 is fine, the car has started fine over these last few coldish days even with the dodgy injectors. You are trying to pull/push a very thick viscous fluid through the pump and the injectors. This will put extra strain on the pump, as to whether the pump is capable of taking that extra strain I don't know....yet!. Perhaps it would have been OK with the Elsbett nozzles, if the dodgy washers hadn't knackered them.

As for heating the fuel any kind of electric fuel heater is useless for that first few seconds you are cranking (and the next few minutes). I have plans to fit a temperature sensor to the fuel line after the heater and see what the rate of rise is with it - just out of curiosity.

I have seen an induction heating rig for use on the fuel lines, but I would be more inclined to fitting it around the injectors and timing it with the glowplugs. That way the injectors and a bit of fuel would be warm for the startup.

I think the way to go is to start on diesel, and monitor the coolant temp to a heat exchanger. Once the coolant hits 70 degrees or so (which is about a mile and a half for me) then switch onto SVO. That way the SVO will be nice and warm and a lot thinner. The only tricky bit will be remembering to switch back to diesel a few minutes before you arrive at your destination.

Once I get the injectors sorted and a few more bits come through the post this is the way I'll be going. I'll keep the Elsbett heat exchanger and glowplugs and fit a small marine type tank in the back for diesel and use some control valves to switch between 100% diesel or 100% SVO

I have had quite a few experiences of the "don't touch it if it's working" variety....and I've still yet to learn

Regards

TFB

[DLM48]

i was thinking of - planning to - put a custom made alloy tank under the bonnet for say a gallon or more of pump diesel - short lines and no loss of boot space - the 'sensible' alternative is a tank in the middle of the spare wheel but then that means a filler and fuel lines feed and return plus holes in the boot floor pipe routes and fixing these pipes - and of course both tanks/locations need a lift pump.

IF you forget to switch to diesel before switching off you should be able to do a quick purge - the issue is mixing some SVO in your 100% diesel tank as it is forced up the return line - hardly a big issue really.

auto switching from diesel to SVO should be easy peasy - you might need a radio beacon (and the appropriate transmitter licence - mmmmm 35MHZ is free - he he a radio controlled diesel Volvo) on your roof and a receiver in the car to trip the switch back to diesel as you drive home though :-)

[DLM48]

Originally Posted by tfb

I am coming to same conclusion about twin-tanking.

From my experiments so far the major problem I have had with 100% SVO is cold starting. 50/50 is fine, the car has started fine over these last few coldish days even with the dodgy injectors. You are trying to pull/push a very thick viscous fluid through the pump and the injectors. This will put extra strain on the pump, as to whether the pump is capable of taking that extra strain I don't know....yet!. Perhaps it would have been OK with the Elsbett nozzles, if the dodgy washers hadn't knackered them.

As for heating the fuel any kind of electric fuel heater is useless for that first few seconds you are cranking (and the next few minutes). I have plans to fit a temperature sensor to the fuel line after the heater and see what the rate of rise is with it - just out of curiosity.

I have seen an induction heating rig for use on the fuel lines, but I would be more inclined to fitting it around the injectors and timing it with the glowplugs. That way the injectors and a bit of fuel would be warm for the startup.

I think the way to go is to start on diesel, and monitor the coolant temp to a heat exchanger. Once the coolant hits 70 degrees or so (which is about a mile and a half for me) then switch onto SVO. That way the SVO will be nice and warm and a lot thinner. The only tricky bit will be remembering to switch back to diesel a few minutes before you arrive at your destination.

Once I get the injectors sorted and a few more bits come through the post this is the way I'll be going. I'll keep the Elsbett heat exchanger and glowplugs and fit a small marine type tank in the back for diesel and use some control valves to switch between 100% diesel or 100% SVO

I have had quite a few experiences of the "don't touch it if it's working" variety....and I've still yet to learn

Regards

TFB

Well as the VW Rabbit Golf to us guys was one of the first cars to go veggie i think the pump is up for the job so that is not a big worry. Sub zero temperatures and SVO are of course and move the goalposts quite a bit in the wrong direction. I am somewhat concerned about all of the electrical heaters especially as you are going to need that on the coldest days when you want your battery to be unencumbered when it is trying to start the engine these are just unwanted loads at that time. I think you said that the Elsbett kit keeps the glow plugs powered up till the engine reaches working temperature that to me seems excessive - are you sure of this timing? I would have thought once the engine was running and you had good solid combustion you had no further need for the glow plugs.

You can get induction heating for the fuel lines from the IP to the injectors i have not seen induction heating used in any other area you can also get direct heating wires for these pipes too.

I seems sad that you bought one of the best kits around with the best reputation yet you seem to be experiencing a fair number of problems and issues that i would have expected to be totally sorted - it is almost as bad as Microsoft and their O/S's they take the money and the customer gets the pain - and it sorta failed the German engineering test - i wonder if any Swedish companies do SVO kits :-) I wonder if there is a Elsbett SVO forum?

regards

[RoyMacDonald]

Originally Posted by DLM48

I seems sad that you bought one of the best kits around with the best reputation yet you seem to be experiencing a fair number of problems and issues that i would have expected to be totally sorted - it is almost as bad as Microsoft and their O/S's they take the money and the customer gets the pain - and it sorta failed the German engineering test - i wonder if any Swedish companies do SVO kits :-) I wonder if there is a Elsbett SVO forum?

regards

If the kit had been bought and fitted as it came I would agee with you, but did you read the way it was fitted? It wouldn't matter how good the quality of a kit was if it was fitted in that way. If you installed a M/S operating system then deleted/hacked vital files would you still expect it to work perfectly? I have seen the Elsbett 1 tank kit working fine on an old Land Rover Defender and a VW Golf.

Roy

[DLM48]

Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald

If the kit had been bought and fitted as it came I would agee with you, but did you read the way it was fitted? It wouldn't matter how good the quality of a kit was if it was fitted in that way. If you installed a M/S operating system then deleted/hacked vital files would you still expect it to work perfectly? I have seen the Elsbett 1 tank kit working fine on an old Land Rover Defender and a VW Golf.

Roy

i agree in part that it was not installed in a logical or ideal way but i still would not have expected the problems that occurred and yes as an IT consultant i have had to 'modify' vital files to get the OS to work properly i have a real issue with MS software and for sure getting it to work 'perfectly' is difficult it not actually impossible......but we are moving off the topic here.