What's the problem with electric cars?

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by ITSv40

I'm neutral when it comes to the electric versus ICE debate. Electric doesn't really interest me and I have no need or desire to replace my current cars in the near future.

I met a chap a few weeks ago who is on his third Tesla and wouldn't buy anything else. I asked about range anxiety and he replied that he had recently completed a continental journey with no issues. He started from home - in Northamptonshire - and travelled across France, around the coast of Italy, down the Adriatic and ended up in Greece. Then returned via a more direct route. He was also planning a similar journey via France, up through the Netherlands, Germany and around Scandinavia and back. I asked how he knew where to recharge and apparently Tesla monitors his journey and battery condition and suggests the nearest charging point. If that one is busy he will be directed to the next nearest without a queue.

I was quite impressed, but found it equally creepy that Tesla were monitoring his every move. No idea if he was talking utter bull, but he is not a chap known for that.

Tesla's, I believe, have by far the best charging hubs.

This isn't the case in an ordinary electric car. You have to rely on the broken chargers with long queues.

[Thekilt]

To answer a few more points raised:

1. Yes the price per mile is high, and not that much of a delta between a diesel, HOWEVER this is only for charging on longer journeys. If I did the same mileage of 710 but only charged at home at a rate of £0.075 per kWh (3 miles per kWh) you end up with a total cost of £17.75 which is a lot better value. I would say I only do approximately 2000 out of 10,000 miles a year so it’s still better value.

2. I admit too, I would not of liked to do the same trip in a different brand electric car. The Tesla supercharger network is significantly cheaper than third party chargers and generally not full. Most charging stations I go to I have been able to roll up straight away and charge. If you browse the map it tells you how many chargers are free, or if they are full how long it will be until 1 is free. At most of the service stations I stopped at I did note the other third party chargers and the horror stories of long queues are very rare. I have never seen any full, but I can understand at busy periods it can happen.
A rough guide, Tesla costs per kWh are around 35p to 45p for fast chargers (150 to 250kwh), however all third party fast chargers equivalent are between 60p and 90p which actually makes it more expensive than most equivalent diesel / economical petrol. My break even for the last diesel is 55p per kWh. Even Tesla chargers which are open to other brands still charge more than Tesla owners.

3. Tesla doesn’t track you, the car knows how much energy it has and knows when you need to fill up and where the closest charger is. No different than other electric cars or even some decent ICE cars with navigation telling you where the next fuel station is.

[Forg]

Originally Posted by ITSv40

I asked how he knew where to recharge and apparently Tesla monitors his journey and battery condition and suggests the nearest charging point. If that one is busy he will be directed to the next nearest without a queue.

From talking to the (relatively few) EV owners I know, who've had the car for a little while at least, you do change your way of thinking about "filling up", at least when you're away from home/work long enough to need to buy electrons.

All your life up to that point you're generally looking for something that looks like a service station, or signs to services. Yes cars with SatNav do have the ability to direct you to a service station, but we're so used to do it in the analogue way few of us use that facility.
But with an EV, rather than looking out for signs or visual cues, you just use the thingy built into the SatNav, and it tells you where to find charge-points either along your route or where to divert to etc, and it also tells you how busy they are so you can find alternatives if you want.
It's just a different way of buying juice, certainly no worse than the Old Way. EV owners tell me it's better, but I'm not entirely sure they're not still caught-up in the novelty of it.

[baggy798]

The future we expected...



"The car of the future will blast along the highways powered by an unlimited supply of radio energy transmitted from distant generating stations. Open the throttle and ride wild and free in the secure knowledge that you'll never need to fill up again!"

The future we got...



"A Tesla Model Y owner decided to build his own solar roof that can add over 20 miles of range to the electric SUV per day."

[baggy798]

Although this drawing from 1944 is pretty accurate with the big screen in the centre of the dash. It just shows you that there's nothing really new under the sun.



And we do have 'electric eyes' that can drive the cars now:



Hey, what about this Electromobile from 1916!



"The big problem with electric cars today, as it's always been, is that the batteries don't hold enough of a charge to get you much of anywhere.

Enter Hubert A. Melivaine, who in 1916 found the answer right in front of his eyes. Batteries not up to the job? Then turn cars into trams and let the National Grid do the heavy lifting. Routes may be a tad restrictive, but when you're going green, personal freedom is one of those little luxuries you have to learn to live without."

All taken from https://davidszondy.com/futurepast/future-car.html. Interesting and fun little site.

[Forg]

^ Yeah, ICE design moved a lot more quickly during the 20th century than electric motor design did! In fact I'd be super duper surprised if the difference between 1916 and now in ICE's is much bigger than the difference in electric traction design ... I know there've been electric motor efficiency improvements, but not as much as with ICE's, as anyone who's paid for fuel in a gutless 1970's car will attest.

The biggest advances made in the last decade or two have been more about batteries. Even with Toyota chucking money at fuel-cell tech, it looks to this little black duck that battery innovation will continue apace rather than other Things coming along.


Also, with respect to that 1944 pic with the in-car navigation screen:

Originally Posted by Random Site Off Internet

A Brief History of Car GPS Navigation

The Early Development of Car Navigation

The earliest known attempt at developing in-car navigation technology for automobiles is believed to have come in 1930, when the Iter Avto was created. The Avto relied on a series of paper maps to help guide drivers from point A to B, which caused issues whenever they veered away from their planned route.

This is due partly to how the Avto was made, since the maps’ scrolling was controlled by a cable attached to the car’s speedometer, leading to the car’s speed determining how quickly the map scrolled.

[Thekilt]

There are continuous improvements with motors, this company being at the forefront (now owned by Mercedes) https://yasa.com

But there are also advancing energy recovery systems like heat pumps which further enhances economy.

The general principle of a combustion engine hasn’t changed, just similar small improvements over time. Most of which come hand in hand with material enhancements, precision, electronics etc. generally flowed down from motor racing and/or changes in regulations (euro 4/5/6 etc)

I also feel a lot of manufacturers now put reliability quite low down in the list of priorities as you tend to see newer cars (this is electric cars too) failing earlier than used to be. With the never ending cost reduction manufacturers put on designers, the lifespan of certain components are a lot less than they used to be, be generally more expensive to replace. One perfect example is headlight (as these tend to be more common to see when driving around) the amount of newer cars with expensive day time running lights, and yet only one is working and they cost about £1k to replace. I’ve seen almost all makes with issues like this.

[Whippy]

One of the biggest problems we face with all cars now is as you say the failure rate, this has been increased out of all proportion by the increase in complexity. As manufacturers TELL us that WE want bigger touch screens and more of them to go along with more self driving capabilities whilst still trying to pack more tech into every corner things stand more chance of failing. Insurance rates are rocketing because of the cost of repairs. Getting ridiculous now.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by baggy798

All taken from https://davidszondy.com/futurepast/future-car.html. Interesting and fun little site.

Chassis Lubricator? When I was about 20 my parents neighbour let me have a drive in one of his older cars which I think was a Morgan, it had a 4th pedal, or button really, which apparently released warm engine oil into the front king pins - you were supposed to do it every so many miles.

I don't think the motorcyclist behind would have been keen...

[green van man]

Originally Posted by Tannaton

Chassis Lubricator? When I was about 20 my parents neighbour let me have a drive in one of his older cars which I think was a Morgan, it had a 4th pedal, or button really, which apparently released warm engine oil into the front king pins - you were supposed to do it every so many miles.

I don't think the motorcyclist behind would have been keen...

Do you remember grease nipples? They used to be on every ball joint, universal joint you bought.

Had to fit new front wish bones to my xc70 recently. Needless to say neither the old or the new had grease able ball joints. Before fitting them I drilled and tapped M6 holes in the bottom plate of the ball joint and fitted a grease nipple. If doing this remember to remove the top clip from the rubber boot so the grease can escape as you flush the joint once in a while.

I do similar to steering ball joints and track rod ends also.

Not owning a JCB, I have to find work for that powered grease gun I bought.


Regards Paul.