New XC90 XC70 Web Site Spotted

[RoyMacDonald]

Hi James

It would be useful to find out more about the reliability of different generations of AWD from owners. Unfortunatly when complaining about the transmission people often don't post their model year on the tech forum, or the exact nature of the problem when diagnosed and the solution. Posts are often left open and unresolved which isn't useful on a tech forum.

I'm not sure there have been a lot of second generation failures from what the main dealer service departments have said. 1 failure from 7 dealers who've sold about 300 XC class vehicles each dosn't count as a lot in my book. The third generation Haldax drive was also stronger than the one in my car but I don't know by how much. The fourth generation is 50% stronger than the third I do know. I did read a comment from senior management at Volvo saying that if you looked at some vehicles from other manufacturers you can obviously see that the best part of the desigh budget was spent on the engine. If you look at a Volvo you'll see it was spent on the design of the body.

Personally I like that philosophy. I feel you can always replace a mechanical part but if you or family members are killed in an accident there is no way of putting things to rights again.

If there was a definitive life worked out from experience of owners for components of the different transmissions it would be usful to know so you could just repace them before they failed. Something like Toyota Landcruiser owners who are advised to change the radiator at 70,000 miles to avoid it corroding out and wrecking the autobox with coolant contamination. Unfortuantly it seems the fashion to post main dealer/Volvo UK compaints on the tech forum at the moment.

All the best.

Roy

[4wheeldriver]

Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald

Something like Toyota Landcruiser owners who are advised to change the radiator at 70,000 miles to avoid it corroding out and wrecking the autobox with coolant contamination.

Thats fair comment but then the questions rising are

a) Why ARE the posts left open?? is it because there are never definitive answers given BY the dealers or VCUK? Or is it due to the folk just not posting an answer??

b) Who gave the advisory to change the above radiator? Toyota or just people in general?? If its the man in the street is it pased by word of mouth?

It seems that most people complaining of the awd failure seems to be around the 50,000 mile mark. Doesnt seem to be many miles for a major component of the driveline to only last that amount of miles whether its in an R or xc model.

Also a radiator is going to be a LOT less than some of the bills owners are being presented with for fixing this for somebody to go and change it before it DOES break!!

Cheers

Phil

[TheJoyOfSix]

Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald

Unfortuantly it seems the fashion to post main dealer/Volvo UK compaints on the tech forum at the moment.

The very nature of a forum like this one means that at least 50% of all posts are likely to be with maintenance/service issues so I'm not entirely convinced that there is a 'fashion' at this present time to denigrate VCUK or their dealers.

I agree that in the grand scheme of things 30 threads about failure of a particular part in a particular model when several thousand of these cars have been made does not mean that all will fail nor does it mean that they should be avoided because of it.

However, many owners of whatever make and model of car are not internet savvy, or even if they are don't know about Forums. Of those that do, not all know about this forum so the relatively small number of posts throughout the internet that we on this forum have heard about doesn't mean that there is no significant issue.

There will always be 'friday cars' - those that are perceived to be poorly built by their owners and subject to frequent faults, but when a small but not insignificant number of people worldwide seem to suffer the same fault at the same mileage the possibility has to be considered that there is an actual issue affecting certain cars. Once again this does not mean that ALL will be affected.

Equally I'm sure that most people here aren't that concerned with knowing that other manufacturers are worse than Volvo for faults. Ok, so some Toyotas have to have the rad changed at 70k miles, Rover K series 1.8's need headgaskets at 65k, Volvo 340's need carb rebuilds at 75k, 7/900 need PAS racks at 100k. None of this helps the poor XC owner when his car fails to tow his daughters horsebox across a wet field, or haul his jetbike up a wet slipway.

What we are concerned with here is finding out if there are any potential issues regarding ownership of Volvo cars. Prospective owners can then use this info to decide if they are willing to buy a particular model or not, or that if they do they MAY have to face certain faults during their ownership. Derbyshire Police still buy Volvo T5's despite the fact that about 10% of them spectacularly blow their engines at 75k miles. The rest last fine up to 150k when they are disposed of as they are then getting ready for major suspension, steering and transmission work. I bought a 1999 S80 2.9 in the knowledge that many owners have had all sorts of horrendous electrical faults with them, but I was armed with that info before I bought so I know what the likely problem areas are and how to avoid them where possible, or how to replace/repair it when neccessary. The fact that a Nissan may be better or worse is of no consequence to me if I am buying an XC or already have one.

Volvo make good cars, but there will always be troublesome ones and learning how to spot them and fix them is surely the object of this forum??

[RoyMacDonald]

Originally Posted by 4wheeldriver

Thats fair comment but then the questions rising are

a) Why ARE the posts left open?? is it because there are never definitive answers given BY the dealers or VCUK? Or is it due to the folk just not posting an answer??

b) Who gave the advisory to change the above radiator? Toyota or just people in general?? If its the man in the street is it pased by word of mouth?

It seems that most people complaining of the awd failure seems to be around the 50,000 mile mark. Doesnt seem to be many miles for a major component of the driveline to only last that amount of miles whether its in an R or xc model.

Also a radiator is going to be a LOT less than some of the bills owners are being presented with for fixing this for somebody to go and change it before it DOES break!!

Cheers

Phil

b) Toyota owners club members.

c)50,000 mark on what version? The models James is talking about are version 1 I think.

d)It's about £6,000 to repair if the Toyota rad springs an oil/water leak.

Roy

[RoyMacDonald]

Originally Posted by TheJoyOfSix

The very nature of a forum like this one means that at least 50% of all posts are likely to be with maintenance/service issues so I'm not entirely convinced that there is a 'fashion' at this present time to denigrate VCUK or their dealers.

I agree that in the grand scheme of things 30 threads about failure of a particular part in a particular model when several thousand of these cars have been made does not mean that all will fail nor does it mean that they should be avoided because of it.

However, many owners of whatever make and model of car are not internet savvy, or even if they are don't know about Forums. Of those that do, not all know about this forum so the relatively small number of posts throughout the internet that we on this forum have heard about doesn't mean that there is no significant issue.

There will always be 'friday cars' - those that are perceived to be poorly built by their owners and subject to frequent faults, but when a small but not insignificant number of people worldwide seem to suffer the same fault at the same mileage the possibility has to be considered that there is an actual issue affecting certain cars. Once again this does not mean that ALL will be affected.

Equally I'm sure that most people here aren't that concerned with knowing that other manufacturers are worse than Volvo for faults.
What we are concerned with here is finding out if there are any potential issues regarding ownership of Volvo cars. Prospective owners can then use this info to decide if they are willing to buy a particular model or not, or that if they do they MAY have to face certain faults during their ownership.
Volvo make good cars, but there will always be troublesome ones and learning how to spot them and fix them is surely the object of this forum??

I didn't make it clear I was talking about legal/warrenty issues on this forum. I have no problem with hearing about tech issues and whether anybody was able to identify and cure the problem, but to be of use posts need to contain some info on the car in question. ie the model year. Most main dealers are good but some are not and it's usful to hear about peoples experiences in the service dept.

I only start going on about other cars when people post how Volvo's are no good and other makes are. I think Volvo are one of the best car makers in the business. That others don't will affect their posts but the owners club tech forum is not the place to slag off Volvo in general as some wish do.

For every thread post to be subjected to a negitive post by the same few people that only complain about the repeated fact that a very small no of people have a problem that as yet is unresolved serves no useful purpose and creates a misleading impression that Volvo is an unreliable marque. By all means if you have a tech problem start a thread but don't post the same issue on every other unrelated thread.

No knows why 'Friday' cars happen but they are certainly not exclusive to any one car manufacturer.

I promised myself I stick to tech discussions, yet here I've gone off thread yet again. Sorry about that.

Roy

[4wheeldriver]

Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald

d)It's about £6,000 to repair if the Toyota rad springs an oil/water leak.

Roy

How much is to do the radiator BEFORE it fails though??

Phil

[RoyMacDonald]

Originally Posted by 4wheeldriver

How much is to do the radiator BEFORE it fails though??

Phil

Toyota main dealer, about £900, I think.

Roy

[foggyjames]

Roy - The trouble with that argument is that the ETM problems are very fresh in our minds, and we don't want a repeat.

I'm sure you don't need reminding of the damage Volvo did to their image with that piece of poor engineering and appalling customer service. Regret has been expressed at all levels within the VOC (from membership to management) that more was not done at the time. We want to learn from that episode.

I can sing Volvo's praises all day long in general, but when they **** up, we mustn't let people be "handled". The Volvo Owners Club is here to help Volvo Owners, not Volvo Cars. Volvo Cars UK very clearly showed their willingness to fob customers off until the ETM issue became a matter for the press, and their brand's reputation for reliability came into question. Only THEN was the matter taken seriously, and an acceptable solution presented.

This is for Volvo's own good. If they have a problem, they need to fix it. The internet now means that these problems, when they occasionally occur (and I share your belief that it is far less often than with many other manufacturers), are not going to go away.

Or, to put it rather more bluntly...I'm not here to kiss Volvo's backside. I'll give them a good old pat on the back when they do a good job, but it's a two-way street...

cheers

James