Big 4x4`s why do you really own/buy them really?

[OldBlueVolvo]

That's a fair point really Gillberry. There could be a number of tall people like ourselves who find they need a larger car to fit into. My estate is just about big enough for me, though it could be a little bigger around the footwell. I don't know what the new Volvo estates are like for height and leg room. It is true to say though, that there are some small cars that provide more personal space than some big cars.

RE: Range Rovers. If I gave the impression that I hate these vehicles, I don't. I'm sure they are excellent vehicles. I was only interested to know how good the mpg is for a modern Range Rover compared to a an old Volvo because somebody said that ANY Rangie would be more fuel efficient than an old Volvo. A comparison of petrol vs. petrol engine would be nice, rather than petrol Volvo vs. diesel Rangie. Looking at the Landrover website, I would say that the new super-charged V8 is less fuel efficient than many old cars. So, I have found the answer to my question.

Finally, the question about double-cab pick-ups was designed to wind-up a few 4x4 lovers, and it seemed to work.Once you have bought your vehicle you can shove whatever you like in the back, or not. It's up to the you.

[volvo145]

OldBlueVolvo it was me that was trying to wind you up i think ;sorry for that.
I cant speak as i have both 4X4s and Volvo's.
Personaly i would not pull a 21 ft internal length caravan now which still happens with the extras they have with any standard car due to weight restrictions.

[Paul240480]

Originally Posted by volvo145

OldBlueVolvo it was me that was trying to wind you up i think ;sorry for that.
I cant speak as i have both 4X4s and Volvo's.
Personaly i would not pull a 21 ft internal length caravan now which still happens with the extras they have with any standard car due to weight restrictions.

I can understand where you are coming from in terms of the caravan point. BUT, I had two 21ft vans, one was 1200kgs MTPLM the latter 1280kgs MTPLM, I pulled the first with my 240 Tors with a max tow of 1650kgs & after with my T5 Est again 1650kgs max tow. Neither caused me any probs. Yes the Tors was a bit slow off the mark........... T5 however would leave cars standing even with the flipping box attached

Seriously tho', with an Alko stabilser in the set up they never once stepped out of line.

[dodgyken]

One point that is overlooked is when people mention how much heavier 4*4 are - and how much extra damage they cause in a collision.

Perhaps - but consider this - the latest M3 weighs 1650kg - and the latest V70 D5 1850kg - a Nissan X-Trail (midsize SUV) - 1650kg - oh!

Then think back 20 year agos and compare Volvos to other cars on the road. Volvos were bigger, heavier and designed to be safer - and you can be pretty sure they would have caused a lot of damage to many other road users in an accident.

In fact when a taxi stopped (without brake lights) and I ended up in the back of him - I suffered a broken headlight - he lost his back end. The cars? 87 740 and a mid 90s Astra Estate - you work out which was which!

[volvo145]

Paul240480;I have pulled with all these motors with no problem but i wouldn't now.The reason i say that is i need my driving licence and the law enforcement guys up here ,enough said.
Think of the amount of continental vans that are on the road and illegal but that doesn't stop them does it?.
Have you ever put your outfit on a weigh bridge with all your gear loaded,if you have then your one of the good responsible caravaners?.

[Paul240480]

Hi, I did not put my outfit on a weighbridge ever - which is the only surefire way to know exactly how much you are towing.

Both of my vans 'allowed' 250kgs of 'goodies' to be loaded to bring them upto their respective MTPLM.

Before I had ever towed I read up (as I was aprehensive about it) in Practical Caravan (whilst wearing my anorak LOL). They advise on the 85% rule. I, was able to submit my 'outfit' details, firstly Fleetwood Garland 165/5 & 240 Tors. That combo' came in at around 88% IIRC so well within the cars capability. With T5 & Swift Challenger 490SE Lux it came in around 92%.

I initially used a 'leaf-stabiliser' but part-ex'd it at a van dealer for an Alko hitch-stabiliser which was good for vans upto 1500kg. What a fab bit of kit.

Fleetwood was 75kg on the nose max & Swift 85. I had a guage & checked I was at or just below the 75kg as this was the max for the car. Infact with the Swift I invested in an under carrier for the spare wheel to help with nose weight.

For loading, PC printed a list of 'general weights' of most common items loaded - awnings, 10" TVs, water containers, foodstuffs etc. I used this to, admittedly 'guestimate'.

Responsible? Well I'd like to think so. The only other thing I could of done, is as you rightly say, whack it on a weighbridge.

As for continental outfits, you don't need to tell me. Living in France I see all sizes of vans being towed by little cars, nose high or low, no stabiliser whilst wanging down the motorway at 75+ mph!!

Oh BTW, for my sins I'm ex-plod (15yrs before I 'saw the light' and told em' to shove it). All of my towing was done whilst being a 'plodder'. I did get stopped once for a 'routine check' . It was pointed out that I'd forgotten to attach my break away cable! Luckily the traffic plod was a decent sort & just said, "well best you connect it now". And no I didn't cough to being 'job' I was far too embarrased.

Anyway I'm in danger of taking this 'off topic' so I'll leave it be. Thanks for your post

[oldyoungman]

You know when there's someone trying to pull out of a busy junction, it's nice to let them out, because if you were in a similar position, you'd like to be let out.
The you get some ruddy 4X4 owner/driver, who just decides to pull out onto your side of the road...I go Around them if they do, trying to force their way out!
At the end of the day, it's the decision of the owner/driverr of what they want to drive, whether it be necessary or not.
My car is way too big for my needs, I very rarely carry more than myself and 2 one passenger, so could live with a smaller car, but after driving a Li'l 3Dr Renault 5 for half a year, I wanted a bigger car because it just feels better, and would like an even bigger one, like 850Est, or V70, even though I have no need at all for one!
Just my opinion on things.
Tom.

[4wheeldriver]

Since I now own one of the much maligned range Rover Sports mentioned in this post, has anyone ever seen the off road capabilties of these vehicles? I got a half day at the Dunkeld Land Rover Experience and these vehicles can go places that an xc could only dream of while running on the SAME CONTINENTAL TYRES fitted on the 18 " rims that the XC90 had!! Now thats going to annoy the xc drivers but I had an xc90 before so I know what could do and the Sport would be pulling the 90 up the hill behind it!

I go shooting and fishing with mine up in the wilds of Scotland and the off road extra height from the air suspension gives me far and above more ground clearance the the XC90 to start with before even dealing with the levels of grip. And if it grounds out!! There's extended height too!! The technology built in to the RR, RRS and Dicos is phenomenal. The Hill Descent Control easily coped with the hill down into here without slipping or sliding!

I also use it to tow a caravan and it does 5-6 mpg better towing the 'van than the XC90 did. Running solo in the summer I was getting nearly 38 mpg (on the computer) running on A roads down through Norfolk and Suffolk. How many other 4x4s, AWDs etc can do that?? On the road its an excellent and comfy vehicle to drive while still maintaining a degree of handling thats surprising! Im sure that Gillberry wil verify that the A10 isnt the straightest road and I was holding my own with an MX5 going up it! And STILL getting just under 36mpg! So how many saloon cars can do all that my Sport can and still return fuel figures like that from a car with a big diesel under the bonnet.

Most of my uses for it are pleasure rather than essential but I pay for having the priviledge of being able to venture into places that other cars and "soft" roaders would be lost on and enjoy weekends away with the caravan too.

My tuppence worth standing up for the Land/Range Rover drivers out there!!

[volvo145]

Good writeup Paul240480 your vans are normal its that big vans that i was refering to.It is very easy to overload or put things in the tow vehicle which often in the end of the day comes to the same GTW.
Age tells me to stay in a hotel which i now do but i still sometimes miss the banter,.
I wish my defender did 36mph ,lucky to get 25 and get a shaken (my) body into the bargain .

[BlueBrickSte]

Originally Posted by OldBlueVolvo

How often do you see a mitsubishi double cab pick-up being put to good use on the roads?

When it's nose first in a ditch like I saw on Monday Townies wi 4x4s Rustics( real ones, not the townie incomers wi their townie ways) wi 4x4s