Amazing D5 Oil Deal

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by Bernard333

In the 2002 V70 handbook there is no mention of Castrol Edge it seems to me that any oil within spec is ok, did Volvo make a mistake by not mentioning Castrol in their own handbook ? On the attached chart from 2007 it appears Volvo are recomending Castrol but is this just Castrol having done a good marketing tie up with Volvo enticing customers to spend a lot more money with no benefit. The compression on my 2003 D5 was measured recently with 690 to 700psi on all cylinders so no loss of compression after 180000 miles on cheap non Castrol oil. The leak back on my injectors is minimal and all 5 are within a narrow range within spec. I calculate fuel consumption on a moving average basis( using brim to brim not the trip ) and can see no measurable decline so far and on an economy run it still does very high mpg but no point mentioning whats possible in a D5 as people just dont believe it. The turbo is whistling slightly since around 120000, I have removed it twice in five years and cannot see any undue wear in the rotor or bearings. My point is that I would have wasted a lot of money had I used Castrol Edge or anything costing more than £12.50/5L and the cheap £3.50 oil filters I spent so far and perhaps an even cheaper oil would have been just as good. My concerns about making my 200000 mile target are more with clutch/DMF/cam belt or electronic module failures than the engine showing any signs of wear through using cheap oil. My overall objective is to get maximum miles at the lowest cost and paying £30 or £40 for 5litres of oil does not make sense to me.

http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/pdf/Volv...rt2007UKv5.pdf

I agree, Castrol Edge (It's the Volvo approved oil used for calculating fuel economy and max oil change intervals) is too expensive and I use Shell Ultra 5/40 instead.
One important point is to get the viscosity range correct and choose an oil that is still inside the 30 range when the oil is changed. That can be done by using an expensive oil like Edge 0/30 that is already at the top of the 30 range and does not shear down much in use, BUT it's much easier if you want to use a cheaper oil to select an x/40 grade.

Your engine is still in good condition, so using a 30 grade would only increase the wear rate if you were racing or towing a heavy horse box in summer, but for most folks with older diesels, using an x/30 rather than x/40 is bad news. Even the Volvo dealers in Germany only use Edge 0/30 in cars under warranty which have it listed as the approved oil, they use either Magnetec 10/40 or the new Edge 0/40 for all the others (They were using Edge 5/40 but changed over last year to 0/40).

Mobil, Shell and Liqui Moly in particular, all make engine oils that are as good as (Or even better in a few cases) Castrol. Once you step outside the major engine oil brands, it's anyones guess how an oil will perform, mostly because obtaining ACEA certification is a joke. It's a self certification process with no checks or follow up tests and no real effective complaints procedures. The so called industry watchdog has never even investigated one complaint:
http://www.ukla-vls.org.uk/

I never pay much attention to total miles in engine wear terms, as total number of cold starts and time at idle are far more important than distance, although sustained high RPM time can be a factor in Germany. New OLM (Oil Life Monitors) can be used to figure out how worn an engine might be, because if the oil is changed at the correct % figure, it will relate directly to the number of oil changes since new.

[macs]

Originally Posted by skyship007

Even the Volvo dealers in Germany only use Edge 0/30 in cars under warranty which have it listed as the approved oil, they use either Magnetec 10/40 or the new Edge 0/40 for all the others (They were using Edge 5/40 but changed over last year to 0/40).

What about high mileage diesels with DPF? Do they use 0w40 for dpf-equipped engines?

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by macs

What about high mileage diesels with DPF? Do they use 0w40 for dpf-equipped engines?

There are at least a dozen different versions of Castrol Edge and Mobil 1, so it's just a matter of selecting the correct one that is DPF rated. Just use their oil finder guide:

http://castroledge.com/uk/oil-range/oil-selector

DPF oils only differ in terms of Zinc based anti wear additives included in the oil, as they cause ash to form in the DPF. In reality the difference between an A3/B4 and a C3 oil is not much unless the engine has a high oil consumption. HDEO's (Heavy Duty Engine Oil) like Delvac or Rimula contain more Zinc additives and are a real no go for DPF systems.

The standard Edge 0/40 can be used for any diesel:
http://www.frontier.ro/files/pdf/Edge%200w40.pdf

The trick with all the main engine oil companies is to use their oil finder page to look up the best oil and alternatives for a particular engine type.
The best oil finder tends to be the Liqui Moly one, as it lists all their oils that are in spec for a particular engine, not just the best / most expensive one:

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/w...oiladb=web.nsf

It does recommend some 5/30's for petrol Volvo cars, 0/30 for most newer diesels and 0 or
5/40's for older diesels, even though the handbook for older Volvo diesels does include some
x/30's, usually with a max temp restriction.
The oil choice is more restricted for diesels with a DPF, for example the only Shell Ultra that is listed is an 0/30 (The 0 and 5/40 are A3/B4 only).

The important thing if you have a DPF fitted is to find out if your oil is getting contaminated by diesel. That's normally only an issue for short trippers and idlers, but the only way to tell is to send of a sample when you change the oil to an oil lab and see what they say about the fuel contamination and viscosity of the used oil (25 usd plus 4 quid postage).
In a bad case the oil change interval should be reduced and I would look at beefing up the oils additives with LM Ceratec to offer some degree of extra protection to the main and turbo bearings, as diesel not only thins the oil, but interferes directly with the function and effectiveness of the anti wear additives. I just use half a can, but add it every oil change.

[younger06]

I found a motor factors selling a 25ltr drum of Carlube tripleR 0W/30 for €132 today, that works out at about €33 for 6ltrs. A bargain if I say so myself!!!

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by younger06

I found a motor factors selling a 25ltr drum of Carlube tripleR 0W/30 for €132 today, that works out at about €33 for 6ltrs. A bargain if I say so myself!!!

So perhaps you can explain what is in Carlube TripleR 0/30 ??

The trick is to send off a sample to get a VOA (Virgin Oil Analysis) done, which will list all the additives and viscosity figures. Then you will know if it's any good or not, although it's worth testing at least every year because even if the oil was certified correctly, there is nothing to stop the manufacturer from changing the mix of base stocks and additives.

I never trust what is written on a can of oil, unless it is produced by a company with a first class reputation as a major brand engine oil manufacturer.

Oddly enough, if you shop around it's possible to find Shell Ultra 5/40 or Castrol Magnetec 10/40 for a similar price. Even Mobil 1 0/40 might not cost much more.

If you are bulk buying this deal seems good for Ultra 5/40:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shell-Heli...item258b854f2a

6 quid a liter is about the cheapest I've seen that oil sell for!

[younger06]

API SL/CF
ACEA A5/B5

That's all the info that is on the can. It's what is recommended for my vehicle on there own website.
I just passed on a 2006 Skoda Octavia 2.0tdi to my boss's wife with 645,000kms on it and I never used a "premium" brand oil in it, I simply used a middle of the road brand to the correct spec and stuck to the service schedule. The car just breezed throught it's NCT (MOT) a couple of weeks ago and absolutely aced it's smoke test!!!


Has Carlube got a bad reputation?? (it's a Tetrosyl company)

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by younger06

API SL/CF
ACEA A5/B5

That's all the info that is on the can. It's what is recommended for my vehicle on there own website.
I just passed on a 2006 Skoda Octavia 2.0tdi to my boss's wife with 645,000kms on it and I never used a "premium" brand oil in it, I simply used a middle of the road brand to the correct spec and stuck to the service schedule. The car just breezed throught it's NCT (MOT) a couple of weeks ago and absolutely aced it's smoke test!!!

Has Carlube got a bad reputation?? (it's a Tetrosyl company)

The A5/B5 spec is not as good at cleaning as an A3/B4 (TBN min of 8 and not 10), which is one reason it's not quoted too often.
I took a look at their site and the Triple R 0/40 (A3/B4) is a better oil for an older engine in viscosity and detergent content terms.
Their web site oil finder recommended a 10/40 for my own car, which is not their best oil, so I suspect they are just recommending oils that are in spec, that make them the biggest profit.

Most major car manufacturers in the EU have an approved oils list. These are oils that have been tested by the car manufacturer and are then OK to use within the warranty period, the oil company can then list the approval on the can, rather than just say, "Meets the standards", or, "Recommended for". I can't find any formal approvals listed for this company, which is odd.
So I think I will stick to Ultra, as approved and used by Ferrari.

One basic check is to look at a VW diesel spec list (It's for new engines using 5/30), to see if the brand is mentioned, as most are:
http://www.my-gti.com/2540

[skyship007]

http://www.my-gti.com/2532

That link gives a list of VW approved oils for their TDI engines. Some are OK for DPF and some are not. The last list was for x/30's, but this one is better because it covers x/40's.
Acea C3 is OK for DPF, B4 diesel oil is not. There has been a new trend to certify oils for both DPF and non DPF equipped diesels. I don't agree that that is in reality possible, so stick to A3/B4 or B4 only oils for my old diesel.

The list is not complete in terms of good oils, as it does not include heavier 15/40's that are good in summer or high mileage (HM) oils that include seal conditions (Top quality oils do have seal conditioners, but HM oils have more), so have a good stop leak capability. Valvoline Maxlife 10/40 is one cheap one, although few HM oils are OK for use with a DPF equipped diesel.

VW are not too fussy about engine oil quality, so if you are looking at using a non major engine oil company brand, if it's not listed by VW, I would think twice.

Some recent research has indicated it is not a good idea to keep changing the exact oil used too often. The main adverse effect is if you keep changing between a full sythetic that has a lot of detergents like Mobil 1 0/40 and a cheap basic conventional that lacks enough anti wear additives to form a good boundry layer offering additional protection during cold starts. The high detegent levels chew up the poor protection layer left by the cheap oil and cause a temporary big increase in wear rates, before the new oil starts to reform a new layer of Zinc, Moly or Boron based compounds.

[younger06]

Is A5/B5 suitable for my 2009 D5 185 ??

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by younger06

Is A5/B5 suitable for my 2009 D5 185 ??

It probably is, but you should check the Castrol engine type specific oil guide to see if it lists Edge 0/30 A5/B5 rather than another Acea spec like C3.

http://castroledge.com/uk/oil-range/oil-selector

The Acea requirements are also listed in the owners handbook.

More info on A5/B5:
https://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAd...A-A5B5-10.html