General: - Help!! have I bought a lemon?!? - Page 5

RobbieH · Nov 15th, 2013, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulieOfArrod

Actually reading that comment again Robbie I think I nearly understand it.

I guess I'm still concerned / more concerned now that a garage like this won't rectify the issue properly for the longer term, so I'm tempted, even if it seems the garage has sorted this, to take it to the gearbox specialist to double check what has been done.

Take the car back, end of story, unless you can be 110% the "specialist" knows how to deal with these boxes. Get it wrong and you could fubar the box totally and just end up with a nice ornament on the drive. You are well within your rights to retrun the car as not fit for purpose.

volvorocks · Nov 15th, 2013, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norfolk Jim

2 hours later my nephew called the garage and suggested they call him back to identify who he was and agree to pay his fees of £400 and hour to defend my son in court'.

Your son is the plaintiff, so why would he need defending.....

Rossi-fan · Nov 15th, 2013, 15:06

Chances are, this dealer/trader was aware of this problem, and was hoping for an unsuspecting buyer, no disrespect to your good self. Believe me, you will feel better if you take it back (pain in the backside I know) and get this guy to put right his wrong. Keep us up to date.

Rossi-fan · Nov 15th, 2013, 15:16

Oh by the way, don't let this put you off owning an S60 or other similar Volvo. They're great cars under normal circumstances, this one has simply suffered a little bit of neglect by previous owner/owners.

Did you check the color/condition of the ATF by any chance?

Norfolk Jim · Nov 15th, 2013, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by volvorocks

Your son is the plaintiff, so why would he need defending.....

It was a polite way of saying get it sorted or we will take you to court and we will win at no cost to us...................handy having him in the family but he's now working on the Hillsborough disaster - rather him than me!

RM955I · Nov 15th, 2013, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulieOfArrod

CAB did say that if I am seeking a refund under the Sale of Goods Act then the onus is on me to prove that the fault exists and is not reasonable / is serious. Surely if I get proof of this quickly, then show them that I have it, then I am in a stronger position to insist on a refund. I can then draw a line and move on. I need this sorting quickly.

I believe that there are some serious crossed wires here. Of course you need to prove that a fault exists, however under the amended terms of the SOGA I think I am right in saying that there was a fundamental shift of emphasis in terms of proving faults. Read this for info http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/c...V0003-1011.txt

TXC · Nov 15th, 2013, 20:41

Get an opinion/inspection by all means, but as has been stated do not have any work carried out whatsoever, doesn't have to be a gearbox specialist, a friendly local independent, preferably with decent fault read computer will do, do not clear any codes, an initial opinion in writing would be an advantage.

Keep this action to yourself for now.

They have asked for the car to be returned to check it out,get your opinions sure, but so far they're doing what is expected of them - so don't get too excited just yet.

Good luck with it.

PaulieOfArrod · Nov 16th, 2013, 11:46

It's interesting, this hasn't put me off Volvos. In fact I was just saying to the wife yesterday that whatever happens with this, I think my next car will be a Volvo. Aside from this pretty major fault, I am just so impressed with the build quality, and I can totally imagine how the right car looked after well (probably a manual) will do the several hundred thousand miles they seem famous for.

Anyway, I've had a call from Frank, in fact two now this morning. First call: The mechanics have looked at it. They say no gearbox problem at all. No problem with the fluid, and no faults recorded. Instead, they say engine mounts. Which have been replaced. I've shared my skepticism with Frank that this is the cause, and my concern that nobody has actually experienced the problem. I repeated again the car needs to be well warmed up and it happens when driving at slow speeds when the transmission needs to re-engage. I did say I can't imagine how the engine mounts issue could be so heat-related. I also struggle to imagine that no fault were recorded. Maybe any faults have now been wiped.

Half an hour went past and I got a call from him again. He said he'd been driving it, and there were no problems at first, but then on an incline he experienced the fault. He's now taken it to a gearbox specialist. They've recommended a gearbox "megaflush", and are fairly hopeful this might sort it. I'm a little bit more hopeful now too, but far from convinced, especially as the first garage said there was no problem with the fluid / oil and no errors recorded. Frank did volunteer that he's also identified that when going from park to drive it would take about 4 seconds to engage. I'd had this problem as well, and on the original drive back home it had done this to me, and very suddenly engaged when the revs were pretty high.

In terms of this having sorted it, I'll believe it if and when I see it, but I can't have this dragging on. When I return to Bristol I'll be taking my camcorder. When I leave the dealer, I won't leave the city until I am convinced it is sorted. If the jolting happens again I will take footage of a good few examples of it, then return the car to Frank. I'll then ask for a refund and politely explain that I am within my rights to obtain one.

He's already saying that if the gearbox flush doesn't sort it, then he won't be able to be justify a new box on a £1500 car (fair enough) so then he'll offer me another car. I'll only take another car if I really want the said other car. Otherwise I'll be pressing for a refund, through the court if I need to I suppose.

If he refuses I guess I should leave with a promise that he'll hear from the court (after one final letter from me). I wonder if I should leave the car there, but that gives him a chance to do all kids of monkey business. Also if I did leave it with him I'd need to refuse any offer of a courtesy car, because that suggests he's going to carry on trying to fix it and that I'll be handing back over soon. Then I guess it's full steam ahead with court action. I know someone has said the thing about "the dealer gets three chances", but I am hopeful that in a case like this, with me so far away, with a serious problem they were notified of straight away, the judge would agree that I'd be entitled to a full refund without any more delay.

I guess I should call back CAB and ask them about how to handle it if the problem isn't fixed, I want a refund, and Frank is trying to get me to exchange for something else.

I guess it is hard to tell if he knew about the problem. He said he didn't, but that doesn't mean anything to me. He's behaving ok on the phone, and he's acknowledged the problem, to his credit.

kwk · Nov 16th, 2013, 12:21

It does sound like he is trying to fix it but, I don't think that you will be happy with the car now. Perhaps they can source you a manual S60 of the same spec.

PaulieOfArrod · Nov 16th, 2013, 12:39

If I'm convinced he's actually sorted it, I'll be quite happy and will keep the car for probably 6-12 months when I hope to have more money for something younger, less miles, and probably a manual from what's been said on here. If he gets this sorted I'll consider myself to have done quite well and I won't be keen on risking another car from the same dealer at the same price. The devil you know and all that.

Nov 16th, 2013, 11:46	#48
PaulieOfArrod Junior Member Last Online: Dec 15th, 2013 22:35 Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Sidmouth	It's interesting, this hasn't put me off Volvos. In fact I was just saying to the wife yesterday that whatever happens with this, I think my next car will be a Volvo. Aside from this pretty major fault, I am just so impressed with the build quality, and I can totally imagine how the right car looked after well (probably a manual) will do the several hundred thousand miles they seem famous for. Anyway, I've had a call from Frank, in fact two now this morning. First call: The mechanics have looked at it. They say no gearbox problem at all. No problem with the fluid, and no faults recorded. Instead, they say engine mounts. Which have been replaced. I've shared my skepticism with Frank that this is the cause, and my concern that nobody has actually experienced the problem. I repeated again the car needs to be well warmed up and it happens when driving at slow speeds when the transmission needs to re-engage. I did say I can't imagine how the engine mounts issue could be so heat-related. I also struggle to imagine that no fault were recorded. Maybe any faults have now been wiped. Half an hour went past and I got a call from him again. He said he'd been driving it, and there were no problems at first, but then on an incline he experienced the fault. He's now taken it to a gearbox specialist. They've recommended a gearbox "megaflush", and are fairly hopeful this might sort it. I'm a little bit more hopeful now too, but far from convinced, especially as the first garage said there was no problem with the fluid / oil and no errors recorded. Frank did volunteer that he's also identified that when going from park to drive it would take about 4 seconds to engage. I'd had this problem as well, and on the original drive back home it had done this to me, and very suddenly engaged when the revs were pretty high. In terms of this having sorted it, I'll believe it if and when I see it, but I can't have this dragging on. When I return to Bristol I'll be taking my camcorder. When I leave the dealer, I won't leave the city until I am convinced it is sorted. If the jolting happens again I will take footage of a good few examples of it, then return the car to Frank. I'll then ask for a refund and politely explain that I am within my rights to obtain one. He's already saying that if the gearbox flush doesn't sort it, then he won't be able to be justify a new box on a £1500 car (fair enough) so then he'll offer me another car. I'll only take another car if I really want the said other car. Otherwise I'll be pressing for a refund, through the court if I need to I suppose. If he refuses I guess I should leave with a promise that he'll hear from the court (after one final letter from me). I wonder if I should leave the car there, but that gives him a chance to do all kids of monkey business. Also if I did leave it with him I'd need to refuse any offer of a courtesy car, because that suggests he's going to carry on trying to fix it and that I'll be handing back over soon. Then I guess it's full steam ahead with court action. I know someone has said the thing about "the dealer gets three chances", but I am hopeful that in a case like this, with me so far away, with a serious problem they were notified of straight away, the judge would agree that I'd be entitled to a full refund without any more delay. I guess I should call back CAB and ask them about how to handle it if the problem isn't fixed, I want a refund, and Frank is trying to get me to exchange for something else. I guess it is hard to tell if he knew about the problem. He said he didn't, but that doesn't mean anything to me. He's behaving ok on the phone, and he's acknowledged the problem, to his credit. Last edited by PaulieOfArrod; Nov 16th, 2013 at 11:56.

Nov 15th, 2013, 15:06	#43
Rossi-fan Premier Member Last Online: Feb 12th, 2023 10:07 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Durham	Chances are, this dealer/trader was aware of this problem, and was hoping for an unsuspecting buyer, no disrespect to your good self. Believe me, you will feel better if you take it back (pain in the backside I know) and get this guy to put right his wrong. Keep us up to date.

Nov 15th, 2013, 15:16	#44
Rossi-fan Premier Member Last Online: Feb 12th, 2023 10:07 Join Date: May 2009 Location: Durham	Oh by the way, don't let this put you off owning an S60 or other similar Volvo. They're great cars under normal circumstances, this one has simply suffered a little bit of neglect by previous owner/owners. Did you check the color/condition of the ATF by any chance?

Nov 15th, 2013, 20:41	#47
TXC Senior Member Last Online: Dec 24th, 2014 20:25 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sussex	Get an opinion/inspection by all means, but as has been stated do not have any work carried out whatsoever, doesn't have to be a gearbox specialist, a friendly local independent, preferably with decent fault read computer will do, do not clear any codes, an initial opinion in writing would be an advantage. Keep this action to yourself for now. They have asked for the car to be returned to check it out,get your opinions sure, but so far they're doing what is expected of them - so don't get too excited just yet. Good luck with it.

Nov 16th, 2013, 12:21	#49
kwk Senior Member Last Online: Nov 4th, 2017 19:04 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: neath	It does sound like he is trying to fix it but, I don't think that you will be happy with the car now. Perhaps they can source you a manual S60 of the same spec.

Nov 16th, 2013, 12:39	#50
PaulieOfArrod Junior Member Last Online: Dec 15th, 2013 22:35 Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Sidmouth	If I'm convinced he's actually sorted it, I'll be quite happy and will keep the car for probably 6-12 months when I hope to have more money for something younger, less miles, and probably a manual from what's been said on here. If he gets this sorted I'll consider myself to have done quite well and I won't be keen on risking another car from the same dealer at the same price. The devil you know and all that.

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