240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Othen]

Originally Posted by loki_the_glt

As promised, photographs of the sender. The yellow cable is the lead to the sender and the red sleeve has its part number (130830).

I've found it - on the driver's side (although that is of no consequence). I've given it a spray with some WD40 - the only thing I can see wrong is that the yellow insulation is missing from the first inch of the wire in the normal 1980s Volvo way. I've moved the sleeve so as to cover it, but that should not affect the sensor. I'll give it a try later on.

I noticed this morn that the passenger side electric window has stopped working - it was fine yesterday so it may not be unconnected to the deluge we had during the night. The driver's side still works fine, so it can't be the fuse, which is common. I'll leave the motor car in the sun this morn to see if that sorts the problem before I start taking things apart. I could see that when I operated the switch on the driver's door (for the passenger side window) there was a negative deflection of the voltmeter gauge, but not when I operated the passenger side switch. That would tend to indicate there was a path to earth from the driver's side switch (either via a short in the wiring or via the winder motor, but not big enough to blow the fuse). It is odd that the same would not happen on the passenger side - I'm thinking about that. I'll see if I can find a wiring diagram for the electric windows and work out what is happening without taking the doors apart.

:-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I've found it - on the driver's side (although that is of no consequence). I've given it a spray with some WD40 - the only thing I can see wrong is that the yellow insulation is missing from the first inch of the wire in the normal 1980s Volvo way. I've moved the sleeve so as to cover it, but that should not affect the sensor. I'll give it a try later on.

I noticed this morn that the passenger side electric window has stopped working - it was fine yesterday so it may not be unconnected to the deluge we had during the night. The driver's side still works fine, so it can't be the fuse, which is common. I'll leave the motor car in the sun this morn to see if that sorts the problem before I start taking things apart. I could see that when I operated the switch on the driver's door (for the passenger side window) there was a negative deflection of the voltmeter gauge, but not when I operated the passenger side switch. That would tend to indicate there was a path to earth from the driver's side switch (either via a short in the wiring or via the winder motor, but not big enough to blow the fuse). It is odd that the same would not happen on the passenger side - I'm thinking about that. I'll see if I can find a wiring diagram for the electric windows and work out what is happening without taking the doors apart.

:-)

Sounds like the passenger window switch needs some exercise and the motor/glass is stuck - when you get the window down, spray some silicone lube into the rubber channels so it runs down inside the channel (but not all over the glass) and there is no path to earth from the switches if my memory of the diagram is correct except for one - the deflection you see on the voltmeter is because the motor is trying to work but can't, usually because the glass has stuck to the rubber.
Open the door and grab the glass with the palms of your hands (one inside, one outside) and apply downwards pressure (direction of travel) while Dan flicks the switch on the drivers door in the downward direction, alternatively open the door and slam it shut a few times then try the drivers switch again. One of these methods usually fixes things. Once shifted, investigate whether the door switch on the door is working correctly.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Sounds like the passenger window switch needs some exercise and the motor/glass is stuck - when you get the window down, spray some silicone lube into the rubber channels so it runs down inside the channel (but not all over the glass) and there is no path to earth from the switches if my memory of the diagram is correct except for one - the deflection you see on the voltmeter is because the motor is trying to work but can't, usually because the glass has stuck to the rubber.
Open the door and grab the glass with the palms of your hands (one inside, one outside) and apply downwards pressure (direction of travel) while Dan flicks the switch on the drivers door in the downward direction, alternatively open the door and slam it shut a few times then try the drivers switch again. One of these methods usually fixes things. Once shifted, investigate whether the door switch on the door is working correctly.

Thank you Dave, I'll give it a try later.

[john.wigley]

I'm no auto-electrician, Alan, but might another possibility - which I think you also reported on your Skoda - be an internal fracture of the wiring where it flexes between the door and main bodywork? This is a common failure on estate tailgates of the period, causing the lights and wiper etc. to act up. The principle is the same, and the driver's door is naturally more frequently used than any other orifice on the car.

Regards, John.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

I'm no auto-electrician, Alan, but might another possibility - which I think you also reported on your Skoda - be an internal fracture of the wiring where it flexes between the door and main bodywork? This is a common failure on estate tailgates of the period, causing the lights and wiper etc. to act up. The principle is the same, and the driver's door is naturally more frequently used than any other orifice on the car.

Regards, John.

Thank you John,

I'll try the LS method first of course: because that is simplest and avoids taking anything apart, but if that doesn't work then the most likely place to look for an electrical fault would be the earth return from the driver's door switch. If you look at the attached wiring diagram you will see that is the only common path between the left and right doors (reversed on this diagram, it must be for a LHD motor car).

So, if Dave's mechanical fix doesn't work I'll start looking in the door jamb.

:-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

I'm no auto-electrician, Alan, but might another possibility - which I think you also reported on your Skoda - be an internal fracture of the wiring where it flexes between the door and main bodywork? This is a common failure on estate tailgates of the period, causing the lights and wiper etc. to act up. The principle is the same, and the driver's door is naturally more frequently used than any other orifice on the car.

Regards, John.

I get what you're suggesting John but Alan has already proved that isn't the case - the deflection of the voltmeter means current is being pulled by the motor so even though the motor isn't turning, it's proved the circuit.

[Othen]

As often happens with old motor cars, one takes one pace forward and then one step back... such was today.

The postie did bring the loom patch so I could plumb a modern radio in without cutting any wires - this will be a half hour job thought I (ho ho). Getting access to the radio/cassette is pretty easy, just take off the two plastic side panels and a couple of screws hold the unit in. The problem became apparent as soon as I looked at the wiring though, instead of two 9 pin Volvo sockets (one male, one female), the mirror image of this (on the motor car's loom):



... the patch had one 9 pin male socket (that fits) and one 4 pin socket (that doesn't), like this:



I think this patch much be for a different model because I've checked the MDL's installation instructions and it definitely shows two 9 pin connectors on the car's loom:



I've sent an email to the supplying company to see if it stocks the correct part with two 9 pin plugs - I hope it will be able to help.

I rather suppose the radio was a dealer fitted option (and probably an expensive one back in the day) rather than a factory fitment, and that the dealer employed the very cheapest auto electrician that money could buy (or perhaps the YTS boy). He/she used these horrible piggy-back connectors for the rear speakers:



... I'll replace those when I get a mo. I had a quick look at the three extra instruments (oil temperature, battery voltage and ambient temperature) after I'd reinstalled the MDL radio cassette and could see the same crappy connectors had been used there as well - so they were probably a dealer fitted extra also. That leads me to believe there may be something in Dave's idea that the inaccuracy of those instruments may be due to a single poor -ve return (they have a common earth). The rain beat me this afternoon, but I'll certainly investigate that further and replace all the piggy back connections, which may well solve the instruments issue.

I didn't get round to trying the LS method for getting the passenger side electric window today, but I did fit a couple of cheap generic mud flaps to the rear (no photo - you all know what mud flaps look like).

As I said: one pace forward, one step back.

:-)

[Moomoo]

Originally Posted by Othen

As often happens with old motor cars, one takes one pace forward and then one step back... such was today.

The postie did bring the loom patch so I could plumb a modern radio in without cutting any wires - this will be a half hour job thought I (ho ho). Getting access to the radio/cassette is pretty easy, just take off the two plastic side panels and a couple of screws hold the unit in. The problem became apparent as soon as I looked at the wiring though, instead of two 9 pin Volvo sockets (one male, one female), the mirror image of this (on the motor car's loom):



... the patch had one 9 pin male socket (that fits) and one 4 pin socket (that doesn't), like this:



I think this patch much be for a different model because I've checked the MDL's installation instructions and it definitely shows two 9 pin connectors on the car's loom:



I've sent an email to the supplying company to see if it stocks the correct part with two 9 pin plugs - I hope it will be able to help.

I rather suppose the radio was a dealer fitted option (and probably an expensive one back in the day) rather than a factory fitment, and that the dealer employed the very cheapest auto electrician that money could buy (or perhaps the YTS boy). He/she used these horrible piggy-back connectors for the rear speakers:



... I'll replace those when I get a mo. I had a quick look at the three extra instruments (oil; temperature, battery voltage and ambient temperature) after I'd reinstalled the MDL radio cassette and could see the same crappy connectors had been used there as well - so they were probably a dealer fitted extra also. That leads me to believe there may be something in Dave's idea that the inaccuracy of those instruments may be due to a single poor -ve return (they have a common earth). The rain beat me this afternoon, but I'll certainly investigate that further and replace all the piggy back connections, which may well solve the instruments issue.

I didn't get round to trying the LS method for getting the passenger side electric window today, but I did fit a couple of cheap generic mud flaps to the rear (no photo - you all know what mud flaps look like).

As I said: one pace forward, one step back.

:-)

Suppliers are keeping an eye on you otherwise you’ll be finished too soon!😁

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Moomoo

Suppliers are keeping an eye on you otherwise you’ll be finished too soon!😁

Ha, ha.. I take your point Andrew; once I start something I find it hard to let up until it is done.

[Othen]

An addendum to the above if I may:

I have a feeling that if the parts supplier can't quickly find the correct loom patch, then I'll end up converting the Barge to ISO plugs (half a day's soldering on two pre-wired connectors) and also converting the radio/cassette to ISO sockets (another half a day). The main reason is that the 39 year old wiring is a bit messy anyway, so I'll probably not be happy knowing it is there, so I might as well fix it properly. It is just my way.

The additional instruments are probably in the same category: when I get a bit of free time I'll take them apart and fit them the way the supplying dealer should have 39 years ago. Again, it is just my way.

PS. Some good news: John (the RB's new owner) called today to say he had taken the RB out for a run and he way very happy with it. He is still planning to swap the BW55 for an AW71 gearbox, but that might wait a while. John is also getting to grips with the laptop PC I mailed to him; when he is more confident I'll encourage him to subscribe to this forum.