TF-80SC at the lights - Page 3

sellxc70 · Jan 30th, 2023, 22:30

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWTF-80_SC

The link makes reference to a stop neutral when the foot brake is applied. I notice my 2014 geartronic used to fall into neutral with the footbrake applied. There would be a small delay in gear selection between brake and accelerator pedal. I've had this function removed using software and there is no more delay.

I agree that sitting in D with the parking brake applied wastes fuel though and it does seem sensible to select N to remove load off the transmission.

sellxc70 · Jan 30th, 2023, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananarama

Interesting you mention improving the cooling because an American on the swedespeed forum did it: https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/2...ng-hot.656122/

Last July I was in France and Switzerland when it was REALLY hot but didn't have the OBD scanner with me so didn't get a chance to see how hot the ATF was.

Thanks for the link. That's a really interesting post.

bananarama · Jan 31st, 2023, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by sellxc70

I've had this function removed using software and there is no more delay.

How come you had this removed?

Stu B · Jan 31st, 2023, 18:16

My 2009 D5 V70 definitely drops into neutral with the footbrake applied, I presume it’s missing some of the more recent TCM software upgrades that removed this?

I find you tend to drive around it in stop/start traffic and slowly let the footbrake off and feel it take up drive again but it would give a slight delay to a rapid take off from standstill if you were unfamiliar with it. I’d prefer that feature removed.

The car is actually booked to have Polestar installed at a Volvo dealer (it’s a 185PS standard car) early next month. Does anyone know if that upgrade would also upgrade the TCM software on this model or would I need to ask for general software updates too, and if so any idea of cost? (I have VIDA at home but haven’t seen an option to turn the stop-neutral thing off so assume it’s not DIY-able?).

I know on the later 8 speed auto models Polestar adjusts the gearbox software too but I don’t think it does on the 6-speed geartronic does it?

Any info appreciated

sellxc70 · Jan 31st, 2023, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananarama

How come you had this removed?

Hi, my gearbox wasn't running right from about 55k miles.

Gearbox oil changed at 55k and also a flush with new valve body at 75k.
No errors showing on my vida.

I was still having a slow engagement from a stop whilst staying in D and the occasion 2nd gear flare under light load.

I have the sofware download from d5t5 which has an option to remove the stop/neutral on the tf80sc. It works very well and I now have immediate drive as soon as I move from brake pedal to accelerator.

The stage 2 map 245hp / 480nm is also a nice upgrade

1st and 2nd have torque limits but 3rd to 6th is great!

sellxc70 · Jan 31st, 2023, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu B

I find you tend to drive around it in stop/start traffic and slowly let the footbrake off and feel it take up drive again but it would give a slight delay to a rapid take off from standstill if you were unfamiliar with it. I’d prefer that feature removed.

Any info appreciated

Yes, that's how I've managed to deal with prior to the d5t5 software upload.

bananarama · Feb 1st, 2023, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by sellxc70

new valve body at 75k

Quote:

Originally Posted by sellxc70

I was still having a slow engagement from a stop whilst staying in D and the occasion 2nd gear flare under light load.

What do you mean by flare?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sellxc70

The stage 2 map 245hp / 480nm is also a nice upgrade

1st and 2nd have torque limits but 3rd to 6th is great!

Lovely

apersson850 · Feb 1st, 2023, 10:46

Volvo removed it for just that reason - too long delay from neutral to drive, and if people with no sense for mechanical stuff pressed the accelerator too quickly after releasing the brake, the engagement was very harsh.

Flare is when a gear shift is too slow, and during a phase of the gear shift you have no drive at all. That means the engine is given time to increase its speed significantly before the next gear engages. When the next gear is engaged, the engine is perhaps at 4000 r/min but the correct speed for the new gear is just 1500 r/min. A couple of bangs like that and your gearbox is ruined.

Shifting in an automatic gearbox is quite critical. All gears are always engaged for all reduction rates. Which rate to use is determined by locking some clutches and/or braking some rotating parts to standstill, while you release other brakes/clutches. When changing over, it's critical that things that should move to disengage the gear you are coming from do this well timed with things that should move to engage the gear you are going to, in order to smoothly go from one gear to the next. Frequently today the engine control is also asked to momentarily reduce torque output right at that moment, to make the gearbox live longer.

Today's gearboxes are electronically controlled. The TCM will measure the result of the commands and adapt to worn parts in the gearbox. If the adaption goes wrong, or actual conditions in the box go outside the allowed adaption range, you can get issues like these.

bananarama · Feb 1st, 2023, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu B

I find you tend to drive around it in stop/start traffic and slowly let the footbrake off and feel it take up drive again but it would give a slight delay to a rapid take off from standstill if you were unfamiliar with it

Ahhh so maybe I have this too? I wasn't sure because it's very subtle but I do notice a small delay after having had the footbrake on for a while. I'll do some more testing...

BTW my V70 is a 2011 D3 SE Lux with a Gen2 box, and the previous owner, aside from the first service, has never taken it to Volvo so its never had any software updates.

bananarama · Feb 1st, 2023, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by apersson850

Flare is when a gear shift is too slow, and during a phase of the gear shift you have no drive at all. That means the engine is given time to increase its speed significantly before the next gear engages. When the next gear is engaged, the engine is perhaps at 4000 r/min but the correct speed for the new gear is just 1500 r/min. A couple of bangs like that and your gearbox is ruined.

I don't think I've ever had this but good to know

Jan 31st, 2023, 18:16	#24
Stu B Master Member Last Online: May 24th, 2024 22:16 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Cheshire	My 2009 D5 V70 definitely drops into neutral with the footbrake applied, I presume it’s missing some of the more recent TCM software upgrades that removed this? I find you tend to drive around it in stop/start traffic and slowly let the footbrake off and feel it take up drive again but it would give a slight delay to a rapid take off from standstill if you were unfamiliar with it. I’d prefer that feature removed. The car is actually booked to have Polestar installed at a Volvo dealer (it’s a 185PS standard car) early next month. Does anyone know if that upgrade would also upgrade the TCM software on this model or would I need to ask for general software updates too, and if so any idea of cost? (I have VIDA at home but haven’t seen an option to turn the stop-neutral thing off so assume it’s not DIY-able?). I know on the later 8 speed auto models Polestar adjusts the gearbox software too but I don’t think it does on the 6-speed geartronic does it? Any info appreciated __________________ 2017 V60 CC D4 AWD Polestar

Jan 30th, 2023, 22:30	#21
sellxc70 Member Last Online: May 15th, 2024 23:08 Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Kent	https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWTF-80_SC The link makes reference to a stop neutral when the foot brake is applied. I notice my 2014 geartronic used to fall into neutral with the footbrake applied. There would be a small delay in gear selection between brake and accelerator pedal. I've had this function removed using software and there is no more delay. I agree that sitting in D with the parking brake applied wastes fuel though and it does seem sensible to select N to remove load off the transmission.

Feb 1st, 2023, 10:46	#28
apersson850 Premier Member Last Online: May 27th, 2024 19:20 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Traryd View Photos By: apersson850	Volvo removed it for just that reason - too long delay from neutral to drive, and if people with no sense for mechanical stuff pressed the accelerator too quickly after releasing the brake, the engagement was very harsh. Flare is when a gear shift is too slow, and during a phase of the gear shift you have no drive at all. That means the engine is given time to increase its speed significantly before the next gear engages. When the next gear is engaged, the engine is perhaps at 4000 r/min but the correct speed for the new gear is just 1500 r/min. A couple of bangs like that and your gearbox is ruined. Shifting in an automatic gearbox is quite critical. All gears are always engaged for all reduction rates. Which rate to use is determined by locking some clutches and/or braking some rotating parts to standstill, while you release other brakes/clutches. When changing over, it's critical that things that should move to disengage the gear you are coming from do this well timed with things that should move to engage the gear you are going to, in order to smoothly go from one gear to the next. Frequently today the engine control is also asked to momentarily reduce torque output right at that moment, to make the gearbox live longer. Today's gearboxes are electronically controlled. The TCM will measure the result of the commands and adapt to worn parts in the gearbox. If the adaption goes wrong, or actual conditions in the box go outside the allowed adaption range, you can get issues like these.

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