Help! Electrical Gremlin; Indicators

[Bob Meadows]

The plastic bodied fuse is notorious for problems on these cars:~
I believe ceramic are available-at a cost.

Had a similar problem when the car stopped dead: Pump fuse looked fine but on close inspection it had been loose in the holder.

The fuses are ok but they need to be checked on a regular basis for the above and other problems as yours: some have changed the whole set of holders over to the blade type.
I don't want that option so keep a regular check on the originals- the fuse box area can also be effected by water/dampness particularly if your windscreen is leaking.
Next Job!
Good detection work.
Regards Bob.

[hreg240]

Originally Posted by Bob Meadows

The plastic bodied fuse is notorious for problems on these cars:~
I believe ceramic are available-at a cost.

Had a similar problem when the car stopped dead: Pump fuse looked fine but on close inspection it had been loose in the holder.

The fuses are ok but they need to be checked on a regular basis for the above and other problems as yours: some have changed the whole set of holders over to the blade type.
I don't want that option so keep a regular check on the originals- the fuse box area can also be effected by water/dampness particularly if your windscreen is leaking.
Next Job!
Good detection work.
Regards Bob.

Thanks Bob,

It took a little while but we got there. Typical of me to over-worry though

I was contemplating switching over to the blade type box, and it is something I may end up doing, but I like the fact I can see if a fuse is blown far quicker with the continental types.

I will be ordering an assortment of fuses from a local motor factor and changing out the whole lot for fresh ones.

- Thorne

[Othen]

Originally Posted by hreg240

Morning all,

We went through the whole indicator / flasher system last night and finally - success!

Tested each wire, from the hazard switch, to the stalk, the relay and the fuse box.

It turned out to be the 16a fuse for the blue wires (can't remember which number off the top of my head). The fuse wasn't blown per-se and I have never seen a fuse break like this (pic below).

So, in short. If you're having electrical faults and are still using the continental type fuses (ceramic ones) CHECK ALL FUSES.... Even if they don't look blown, there could be a dodgy connection.

The upshot of this farce was, however, that we confirmed the rest of the indicator wiring is in good stead - no interference from the alarm, which was a worry.


Thank you all once again for the very sound advice. There are plenty of other jobs that need tending to on the 240, which I will be documenting on here. Now that I can drive the car safely on the road, I am less frantic!



P.s I have no idea how to reduce the size of that image here; I uploaded it to Imgur if that helps.

That is good news, well done. It is a good thing also that you solved it without going to an auto electrician - you will have quite a few electrical gremlins, (particularly as yours is an estate car) so it is good that you learn some first aid early on.

To resize your images in Imgur so they don't come out irritatingly large, just use the 'huge thumbnail' option in the bottom right corner and it will be about the right size:

[Othen]

Originally Posted by hreg240

Thanks Bob,

It took a little while but we got there. Typical of me to over-worry though

I was contemplating switching over to the blade type box, and it is something I may end up doing, but I like the fact I can see if a fuse is blown far quicker with the continental types.

I will be ordering an assortment of fuses from a local motor factor and changing out the whole lot for fresh ones.

- Thorne

I really doubt that it worth swapping the whole fuse box to the blade type. Continental type fuses work okay, just keep the contacts clean.

Fuses don't wear out as such, so there isn't any real need to change the ones that work okay for new ones. Do get plenty of spares though as not many cars use that type if you do have an issue; get some spare ones from eBay.

[Bob Meadows]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192344237...Bk9SR577zM_gYQ
These fuse pullers or similar are useful for the 240:~
They can be left inside the fuse box (hang from the plastic cross bar)
makes for easier handling etc.
Regards Bob.

[hreg240]

Thank you Alan and Bob for the very good advice.

Alan - I will learn my way around Imgur, thanks for the heads up about the Huge Thumbnail option.

Bob - Those fuse tweezers look very handy!

I have updated the general project thread with the latest updates. It seems as though I shall be becoming a homebrew auto-electrician.

[Johnny64]

Thanks for this thread, its been very useful in helping me with a similar problem but unfortunately ive not so far sorted it out. My indicators suddenly stopped working yesterday and noticed that the hazards had stopped working too. Had a good look at the fuses, all looked fine, found the 2 for indicators and hazards, both looked fine but put in new ones and checked connections.. still nothing. Then realised the seatbelt warning light not working so went back and checked relevant fuse to see what else was on that circuit. Said foglights on that circuit, checked, yep they work ok.. so could be relay? Haynes says relay to one side of lower dash unit so took off all plastic covers etc (the best tool kit ive found for this stuff is my Luthiers maintenance kit!!) and there was nothing that resembled a relay that i could see.. I am going to get myself a multi meter tomorrow.. Its all a bit perplexing and of course a vehicle with no indicators is a no go and this is my daily drive for work!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Johnny64

Thanks for this thread, its been very useful in helping me with a similar problem but unfortunately ive not so far sorted it out. My indicators suddenly stopped working yesterday and noticed that the hazards had stopped working too. Had a good look at the fuses, all looked fine, found the 2 for indicators and hazards, both looked fine but put in new ones and checked connections.. still nothing. Then realised the seatbelt warning light not working so went back and checked relevant fuse to see what else was on that circuit. Said foglights on that circuit, checked, yep they work ok.. so could be relay? Haynes says relay to one side of lower dash unit so took off all plastic covers etc (the best tool kit ive found for this stuff is my Luthiers maintenance kit!!) and there was nothing that resembled a relay that i could see.. I am going to get myself a multi meter tomorrow.. Its all a bit perplexing and of course a vehicle with no indicators is a no go and this is my daily drive for work!

Hi Jonny,
That isn't much to go on. As above, the best thing to do would be:

1. Get a multimeter - a really cheap one will do.
2. Be methodical, trace the voltage through, eliminate things one at a time. What remains must be the cause.

... this is pretty simple, let us know if you are still stuck.

A

PS. I was thinking about this whilst walking Bob in the rain this morn. If the fault occurred suddenly then it is far more likely to be a fuse or other physical connection than a component (like a relay). As the fault affects both sides, plus the hazard lamps and the seat belt warning it must be something on the supply side at or before the relay. Fuses or their seating are most likely, followed by an open cct in a conductor or connector. So:



... I don't know which model or year motor car you have, but Mr Volvo didn't change things very much so it may be the same as above. It looks like your fog lamps will be on fuse 14 (pull it and see if they go out to confirm). In that case the most likely culprits will be fuses 9 or 13. At this point it would be much better if you had a multi test meter than just looking at the fuses. Sometimes the fuses seat poorly (see the thread above). Just trace the voltage to chassis earth from fuses 9 and 13 to the relay.

Like I keep saying (boring, isn't it?), just be methodical and eliminate thing one at a time - stop looking for silver bullets.

Good fortune

[hreg240]

Originally Posted by Johnny64

Thanks for this thread, its been very useful in helping me with a similar problem but unfortunately ive not so far sorted it out. My indicators suddenly stopped working yesterday and noticed that the hazards had stopped working too. Had a good look at the fuses, all looked fine, found the 2 for indicators and hazards, both looked fine but put in new ones and checked connections.. still nothing. Then realised the seatbelt warning light not working so went back and checked relevant fuse to see what else was on that circuit. Said foglights on that circuit, checked, yep they work ok.. so could be relay? Haynes says relay to one side of lower dash unit so took off all plastic covers etc (the best tool kit ive found for this stuff is my Luthiers maintenance kit!!) and there was nothing that resembled a relay that i could see.. I am going to get myself a multi meter tomorrow.. Its all a bit perplexing and of course a vehicle with no indicators is a no go and this is my daily drive for work!

Hi Johnny,

I'm glad the thread has helped you somewhat!

If you've checked the fuses for 9 and 13, check the fuse 5. It is a 16a with blue wires connecting to it. This is the fuse that went on mine and I was perplexed as nowhere I read referenced this as one to check.

Make sure to physically remove the fuse from the housing and inspect it; mine looked fine in situ but had a bad connection on one end.

Also, check that the two 'prongs' connecting the fuse in place are actually holding it snugly. If these are loose, the connection won't be great.

If it is something that has suddenly happened, I would err on the thought that it is a fuse of connection. Water is known to get into the fuse box on these 240s. Check everything for dampness and clean and dry if necessary.

Let us know how you get on!

-Thorne

P.S - If fuse 5 isn't the culprit, and there isn't a short / dampness in the fuse box, like Alan said: be methodical.

That's the approach I took and we looked at each component in the indicating system until we found a fault - it took about 40 minutes with a multimeter.

The potential weak links are:

• Indicator stalk and corresponding connections behind it

• Hazard switch and its connections

• Indicator relay and its connections (relay is found in passenger footwell behind center console

• Fuses 5, 9 and 13

• The wiring from the bulkhead to the indicators themselves, although I'd say this is unlikely to be at fault, unless a connection has come loose or a wire has frayed

There isn't much in these systems, they are quite simple - even if they tend to not want to work

[Johnny64]

Originally Posted by Othen

Hi Jonny,
That isn't much to go on. As above, the best thing to do would be:

1. Get a multimeter - a really cheap one will do.
2. Be methodical, trace the voltage through, eliminate things one at a time. What remains must be the cause.

... this is pretty simple, let us know if you are still stuck.

A

PS. I was thinking about this whilst walking Bob in the rain this morn. If the fault occurred suddenly then it is far more likely to be a fuse or other physical connection than a component (like a relay). As the fault affects both sides, plus the hazard lamps and the seat belt warning it must be something on the supply side at or before the relay. Fuses or their seating are most likely, followed by an open cct in a conductor or connector. So:



... I don't know which model or year motor car you have, but Mr Volvo didn't change things very much so it may be the same as above. It looks like your fog lamps will be on fuse 14 (pull it and see if they go out to confirm). In that case the most likely culprits will be fuses 9 or 13. At this point it would be much better if you had a multi test meter than just looking at the fuses. Sometimes the fuses seat poorly (see the thread above). Just trace the voltage to chassis earth from fuses 9 and 13 to the relay.

Like I keep saying (boring, isn't it?), just be methodical and eliminate thing one at a time - stop looking for silver bullets.

Good fortune

Thanks Alan, Sage words and absolutely, patience and methodical methods will win the day! I am getting myself a multi-meter today, as soon as i can get out of a flooded and gale swept bit of Exmoor.. I have a 93 (K reg) torslanda which has the 'in french' circuit details on the the fuse cover and its a bit different to yours (the foglights are on the same circuit as the indicators and seatbelt (fuse 12) and the Hazards are on fuse 9. once i have the multi-meter and the deluge lets up i will be back out there and will report back