Updating XC90 Navigation: technical info about map discs

[bertrandls]

Originally Posted by Clan

no way , it is an integral part of the cars information system and a huge block of files . The dealer will load it and take all the risks ( there are some ) for a reasonable price .

Really risky you think? Without knowing the risk one (I) would think it's a ripoff if it only consists in inserting a usb key... you know what I mean...
But if it's more than that well ok... Can you give me more details about that or... Thanks for your post.

[SwissXC90]

Originally Posted by bertrandls

I have a 2012 Volvo XC60 and prior to upgrading the map (downloaded on the Volvo site) I need to perform a soft upgrade (so called Total Software Upgrade). That should normally be done at the dealer...
Is there any way I could get my hands on that software and load it myself?
Thanks.

Yes: Become an authorised Volvo dealer.


Honestly, the process and tools today is quite sophisticated.
You need the workshop equipment, the licences to connect to the factory servers and download the new software, the training, the experience, the spare parts when things go wrong, the connection to the technical help desk to help you when it simply doesn't "work", etc ect etc.
Car Manufacturers do not want Joe Public to do this stuff in his garage at night, with unknown equipment, no spares or experience, and a dodgy internet connection.

When everything goes well, it is straightforward.

But ask any authorised car dealer and they will tell you many war stories of what happens when reflashing goes wrong - and how many modules that had to replace with new ones because the module wouldn't restart after a reflash...
That's when the annual authorised dealer licence fee is worth it's weight in gold.

A car is not an iPhone....

[SwissXC90]

Originally Posted by bertrandls

Really risky you think? Without knowing the risk one (I) would think it's a ripoff if it only consists in inserting a usb key... you know what I mean...
But if it's more than that well ok... Can you give me more details about that or... Thanks for your post.

Here are the risks:

You have to reflash something like 100 control units in the XC60, dumping many many 10s of gigabytes of data into the car over (sometimes) so many hours that you run it overnight.

If you have a power cut, a power surge, your car charger fails, an internet overload, an internet failure, a person tripping over a cable, the laptop crashing, or anything which might interrupt the download and reflash process, then the reflash can fail.
And on some control units a failed reflash cannot be recovered in the field: the only option is to fit a new control unit at a large cost.

But before you fit the new control unit, you call national technical support and try and work through it with them.
If they cannot solve it they call Sweden and go through it with the factory.
And then you start over again...

In my life I have experienced many failures at various stages, mostly benign, but they can and do happen. Here's some examples of what I have personally experienced:

• Loss of one phase of the local 3-phase power supply, dropping mains voltage from 240 to 170V. Everything struggled to run
• Internet sudden fail
• Router sudden fail
• Static discharge causing sudden device fail - scary!
• Laptop crash during reflash
• Bad intermitten cable breaks taking a long time to find
• Device died after reflash, taking days of work to recover it

Yes, many many risks are involved, and you absolutely DO need the support systems in place to help you when it all goes belly up.

[bertrandls]

Originally Posted by SwissXC90

Here are the risks:

You have to reflash something like 100 control units in the XC60, dumping many many 10s of gigabytes of data into the car over (sometimes) so many hours that you run it overnight.

If you have a power cut, a power surge, your car charger fails, an internet overload, an internet failure, a person tripping over a cable, the laptop crashing, or anything which might interrupt the download and reflash process, then the reflash can fail.
And on some control units a failed reflash cannot be recovered in the field: the only option is to fit a new control unit at a large cost.

But before you fit the new control unit, you call national technical support and try and work through it with them.
If they cannot solve it they call Sweden and go through it with the factory.
And then you start over again...

In my life I have experienced many failures at various stages, mostly benign, but they can and do happen. Here's some examples of what I have personally experienced:

• Loss of one phase of the local 3-phase power supply, dropping mains voltage from 240 to 170V. Everything struggled to run
• Internet sudden fail
• Router sudden fail
• Static discharge causing sudden device fail - scary!
• Laptop crash during reflash
• Bad intermitten cable breaks taking a long time to find
• Device died after reflash, taking days of work to recover it

Yes, many many risks are involved, and you absolutely DO need the support systems in place to help you when it all goes belly up.

Ok I understand. Big risks. And impossible to repair myself and I would end up with a “dead” car. Thank you.

[bertrandls]

Originally Posted by SwissXC90

Here are the risks:

You have to reflash something like 100 control units in the XC60, dumping many many 10s of gigabytes of data into the car over (sometimes) so many hours that you run it overnight.

If you have a power cut, a power surge, your car charger fails, an internet overload, an internet failure, a person tripping over a cable, the laptop crashing, or anything which might interrupt the download and reflash process, then the reflash can fail.
And on some control units a failed reflash cannot be recovered in the field: the only option is to fit a new control unit at a large cost.

But before you fit the new control unit, you call national technical support and try and work through it with them.
If they cannot solve it they call Sweden and go through it with the factory.
And then you start over again...

In my life I have experienced many failures at various stages, mostly benign, but they can and do happen. Here's some examples of what I have personally experienced:

• Loss of one phase of the local 3-phase power supply, dropping mains voltage from 240 to 170V. Everything struggled to run
• Internet sudden fail
• Router sudden fail
• Static discharge causing sudden device fail - scary!
• Laptop crash during reflash
• Bad intermitten cable breaks taking a long time to find
• Device died after reflash, taking days of work to recover it

Yes, many many risks are involved, and you absolutely DO need the support systems in place to help you when it all goes belly up.

Are you a mechanic yourself? Do you work at a Volvo dealer?
Because I could have other questions...

[SwissXC90]

Originally Posted by bertrandls

Are you a mechanic yourself? Do you work at a Volvo dealer?
Because I could have other questions...

I'm an radio (electronics) technician by qualification, and worked on a huge varied range of electronic equipment, from deep sea shipping high powered SSB radios to police motorbikes and public transport and satellite navigation systems (pre-GPS days through the start of GPS) and satellite communications systems and TV transmission systems over fibre and many many other things inbetween, including providing on-site tech support at 2 x Olympic Games.
I've repaired automotive control units at the component level, including fixing Mercedes Benz engine ECUs and replacing dead flash memory in BMWs and extracting the data from the old faulty flash to store into the new flash.
I've written my own software to reprogram vehicles myself, and am currently working on a microcontroller for my XC90 to add some new functions to it, all software based.
I've been doing this stuff for over 30 years now.

But I don't bother with oil changes, I pay a mechanic so that he can get his hands dirty, not me...

But I understand vehicle problem solving, the electronic systems, and the complexities of them, and the logistics operations around managing spare parts for 20 years after production has stopped....

And today my day job is with a big Internet company, everything is software based... no more screwdrivers or test instruments... I used to love using oscilloscopes and spectrum analysers and all the really cool expensive test gear back then.... long live Tektronics....

[bertrandls]

Originally Posted by SwissXC90

I'm an radio (electronics) technician by qualification, and worked on a huge varied range of electronic equipment, from deep sea shipping high powered SSB radios to police motorbikes and public transport and satellite navigation systems (pre-GPS days through the start of GPS) and satellite communications systems and TV transmission systems over fibre and many many other things inbetween, including providing on-site tech support at 2 x Olympic Games.
I've repaired automotive control units at the component level, including fixing Mercedes Benz engine ECUs and replacing dead flash memory in BMWs and extracting the data from the old faulty flash to store into the new flash.
I've written my own software to reprogram vehicles myself, and am currently working on a microcontroller for my XC90 to add some new functions to it, all software based.
I've been doing this stuff for over 30 years now.

But I don't bother with oil changes, I pay a mechanic so that he can get his hands dirty, not me...

But I understand vehicle problem solving, the electronic systems, and the complexities of them, and the logistics operations around managing spare parts for 20 years after production has stopped....

And today my day job is with a big Internet company, everything is software based... no more screwdrivers or test instruments... I used to love using oscilloscopes and spectrum analysers and all the really cool expensive test gear back then.... long live Tektronics....

impressive!!! Are you interested in buying a Tesla after this car? It could be logical for you and your background...

[SwissXC90]

Originally Posted by bertrandls

impressive!!! Are you interested in buying a Tesla after this car? It could be logical for you and your background...

Teslas are too expensive at the moment. And I like something I can work on.
The BMW was great - easy databus, easy to understand. Fantastic car.
The Volvo is already a level more dificult with their stupid dynamic addressing changing every MY.
The Tesla is a bit scary with high voltage in places... and massive repair costs when batteries die...

[bertrandls]

Originally Posted by SwissXC90

Teslas are too expensive at the moment. And I like something I can work on.
The BMW was great - easy databus, easy to understand. Fantastic car.
The Volvo is already a level more dificult with their stupid dynamic addressing changing every MY.
The Tesla is a bit scary with high voltage in places... and massive repair costs when batteries die...

Do you think nitrogen is more the solution rather than batteries? Do you think it's safer? (Where are you in Switzerland I've been working near Geneva).

[SwissXC90]

Originally Posted by bertrandls

Do you think nitrogen is more the solution rather than batteries? Do you think it's safer? (Where are you in Switzerland I've been working near Geneva).

I think batteries are the way to go simply based on the refueling infrastructure - it already exists everywhere, whereas refuelling nitrogen is a different story.

I'm north of Zürich and south of Konstanz

Are you at CERN? (Make me jealous...)