Emergency Brake Overrides ABS

[scotgc]

You are starting to get obsessed with these brakes!!

On the positive side you have function tested that City Safety operates ok and that people behind were observing the highway code and not travelling too close to the car in front!

[darbs]

i wonder what these policies would make of this thread!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16969509

[844PHW]

Originally Posted by darbs

i wonder what these policies would make of this thread!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16969509

That's interesting. When these boxes were first tried out a few years ago, it was as I understand to record mileage so that the policyholder could have a distance-related premium. It is beginning to look like technology taking over from commonsense. Only in extreme and simple cases is the box going to tell you anything useful about a drivers behaviour before an accident. To do a reliable job they would also for instance need 360 degree video coverage of the road plus some sort of biomedical indicators for the driver.

(A typical scenario would be that two vehicles fitted with these boxes collide. Neither box reveals anything pertinent to the cause of the accident. Remember the accident itself is an established fact - but how is it to be explained?)

I wonder if such boxes would reveal useful crash damage data for the manufacturers?

[wimorrison]

Originally Posted by 844PHW

That's interesting. When these boxes were first tried out a few years ago, it was as I understand to record mileage so that the policyholder could have a distance-related premium. It is beginning to look like technology taking over from commonsense. Only in extreme and simple cases is the box going to tell you anything useful about a drivers behaviour before an accident. To do a reliable job they would also for instance need 360 degree video coverage of the road plus some sort of biomedical indicators for the driver.

(A typical scenario would be that two vehicles fitted with these boxes collide. Neither box reveals anything pertinent to the cause of the accident. Remember the accident itself is an established fact - but how is it to be explained?)

I wonder if such boxes would reveal useful crash damage data for the manufacturers?

I find I need to disagree with you. These units provide very valuable data, much more than just the distance traveled. The sort of usefully information that can be held include;

Speed (before and after impact)
Direction
Location
Forward Acceleration/Deceleration
Lateral Acceleration/Deceleration

Whilst these will not be able to say who is at fault in accident they do enable facts to be derived which would indicate driving to close or speeding in the case of an accident.

they enable the driving patterns of the driver to be analysed and show whether they are an aggressive driver, whether they a driver who exceeds the speed limit, whether they a driver who travels at safe times of day, and other aspects.

I see these as very useful devices and something that will become the norm as driving costs go up - and whilst they may remain voluntary for most, there will be a section of the community for whom they will be mandated.

BTW, most smart phones are capable of collecting this information

[XC60MY12]

Originally Posted by wimorrison

I find I need to disagree with you. These units provide very valuable data, much more than just the distance traveled. The sort of usefully information that can be held include;

Speed (before and after impact)
Direction
Location
Forward Acceleration/Deceleration
Lateral Acceleration/Deceleration

Whilst these will not be able to say who is at fault in accident they do enable facts to be derived which would indicate driving to close or speeding in the case of an accident.

they enable the driving patterns of the driver to be analysed and show whether they are an aggressive driver, whether they a driver who exceeds the speed limit, whether they a driver who travels at safe times of day, and other aspects.

I see these as very useful devices and something that will become the norm as driving costs go up - and whilst they may remain voluntary for most, there will be a section of the community for whom they will be mandated.

BTW, most smart phones are capable of collecting this information

Presumably there is an "app" for this? Is it available for Android, do you know?

[wimorrison]

Originally Posted by XC60Fan

Presumably there is an "app" for this? Is it available for Android, do you know?

I have seen one in Germany that recorded all the detail though I cannot recall the name

A quick google search found

http://www.easier.com/99208-free-eco...pp-the-aa.html

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/drive...460289697?mt=8

http://www.essence-computing.co.uk/g...g_monitor.html

I am sure a search of the google or itunes app store will turn up lots of them

[844PHW]

Originally Posted by wimorrison

I find I need to disagree with you. These units provide very valuable data, much more than just the distance traveled

......

Whilst these will not be able to say who is at fault in accident they do enable facts to be derived which would indicate driving to close or speeding in the case of an accident.

they enable the driving patterns of the driver to be analysed and show whether they are an aggressive driver, whether they a driver who exceeds the speed limit, whether they a driver who travels at safe times of day, and other aspects.

I see these as very useful devices and something that will become the norm as driving costs go up - and whilst they may remain voluntary for most, there will be a section of the community for whom they will be mandated.

BTW, most smart phones are capable of collecting this information

I don't disagree that there are situations that such boxes can usefully record. I question whether it is sufficiently useful in all circumstances to be actually worth doing. I see them more like the lorry drivers "spy in the cab" recording whether the car has been driven outside of defined bounds, rather than for analysing normal driving. I am not even convinced that driving faults shown up by such devices would be a reliable basis for assigning blame for an accident, not without at the very least including various biometrics in the data.

I read somewhere that some american cars already have data recording facilities built into the on-board computer. Most likely we don't need a new device. Existing equipment could probably do it with little modification.

I personally would be quite impressed if Volvo's My Car menu had an option:

Data Recording On/Off

Provided that I was able to analyse that data myself if I wanted to.

[stu0710]

Some insurers (such as the Cooperative) are offering these smartboxes specfically aimed at new / young drivers. The idea being that it can be used to monitor your driving style (ie hard acceleration, speeding & heavy braking) and your driving patterns - ie late night etc plus actual mileage covered. This way, as a new driver, if you drive sedately and avoid driving late at night etc you are considered to be a better risk and so your policy is cost is reduced. If on the other hand you drive according to a higher risk profile the unit warns you and your premium can rise.

http://www.co-operativeinsurance.co....ar?WT.svl=copy

[Matteus XC60]

Originally Posted by darbs

in situations like mine, where you've made the decision not to invest in winter tyres, you may find this interesting.

as you may know, summer tyres, even on an AWD, are in no way a match for winter tyres on a 2WD or AWD when it comes to cornering and braking on snowy or icy surfaces. i've mentioned this fact on this site many times, and that like some, i prefer to adjust my driving style for the infrequent snowy and icy conditions in my neck of the woods, realising that corners must be taken much more gingerly and much more distance needs to be allowed for braking.

in any case, if you've ever tried to brake hard on snow or ice on summer tyres, you'll know that more often than not, the ABS will kick in and you could end up drifting for 10 or more times as long as you would on a clear road surface. if you're approaching a junction and you've inadvertently left braking too late, this can be pretty daunting.

anyway, to the point. this morning, after dropping my son at nursery, i decided to have a little play with the emergency brake in the local tesco car park. i found that on ice and packed snow, on summer tyres (i'm on conti x contact), the braking distance with the emergency brake was much, much less than with the footbrake. this is because the emergency brake overrides the ABS and skids the car to a halt.

this sounds great, but it's important to remember why ABS kicks in in the first place. it's to stop the car skidding and the driver losing control and losing steering. without ABS, the car could end up sideways, back to front or in some other peculiar position and the driver would certainly have no steering control. that said, i think it's useful to have in mind, if stopping in as short a distance as possible is the most important factor.

the only problem is the location of the emergency brake. it's the electronic handbrake by your right knee. to operate it whilst the car is moving, push it in and keep your hand on it. let it go to stop the car braking - unless the car is close to stopped or stopped, in which case the brake will stay on until you release it normally.

p.s. pls don't let this be a debate about winter vs summer tyres. this thread isn't about that. if we want to discuss that, perhaps we can in another thread. by all means discuss latin, other cars, the traction engine, quantum physics, graham's number. let's have matteus throw a one-liner in and 844 find how somehow this relates to spare tyres, but pls anything but winter vs summer! who am i kidding? this is only going to be about the merits of winter tyres isn't it?!

Why limit ourselves to winter and summer tyres. There are 4 seasons you know!! Why don't spring and autumn tyres get a look-in? It's a bit more than one line Darbs, sorry mate.

(or: conjunctivitus.com. Now that's a site for sore eyes)

[darbs]

Originally Posted by Matteus XC60

or: conjunctivitus.com. Now that's a site for sore eyes

wahay, joke of the year. not his best in my mind. i preferred:

butcher says to a bloke i bet you £10 you can't reach that meat up there. the bloke says i'm not betting on that. butcher says why not. bloke says the steaks are too high.