General: Oh bugger - caught speeding - help!!!

[gmain1967]

Originally Posted by stephend

I'm slightly puzzled by this, JimG: I didn't think it was a legal requirement in the UK to carry one's licence at all times? I usually carry mine on long journeys, but not otherwise...

That would be my understanding on the subject, JimG would you elaborate on it being law to carry a licence at all times?

[V70Driver]

Failing to produce your licence at road side is not an offence, as with most things connected with driving, ANPR will know whether you should be on the road or not. The officer is entitled to ask for your licence or anything that may identify and confirm who you are. If you can't produce anything, and the officer has "reasonable cause" he can arrest you for what ever offence you were pulled over for, not because you can't produce your licence.
Can you imagine how many people would be arrested at road side checks, minor offences etc for failing to produce a licence at road side.

I agree with being polite and do take notes. If you go to court, don't be intimidated by the experience. Be polite, factual and state you case, with as much information, detail and evidence.

Admittedly in the OP thread, I can't see what he could say or produce that would mitigate his excessive speed. Unless of course if it was a mobile device he was cought with ask to see when, where and times of the calibration for the road it was used on.

V70Driver

[JimG]

It is a legal requirement for you to carry your driving licence (this includes both the plastic card and paper counter part if you have the new style licence), MOT (if required) and Certificate of insurance. And you must be able to produce them at the roadside to a Police Officer if required. You commit offences if you don't. However, we have the discretion to issue form HORT/1 (Producer) that allows the driver to produce the documents at a police station of their choice within 7 days. If this is done, and if no offences are disclosed on their production, then that is the end of the matter.

If no documents are produced at the station then you are reported for summons to court for the offence failing to produce at the roadside as well as driving without a licence, driving without Insurance, etc.

We have access to the Motor Insurance Bureau database. This is a good tool but it has limitations. Trade Policies rarely show up. More often than not the result will read "No Insurance Details Held". If you then cannot produce proof of insurance at the roadside you are at risk of having your vehicle seized.

We have access to the DVLA database. Another good system. But we need to be sure that the person in front of us is who they say they are. If you have other photo ID then that may be suitable to satisfy us and the chances are no action will be taken for not having your licence on you; but you have still committed the offence.

So often we are stuck at the roadside with someone for a great deal of time trying to confirm the details they have given us. They could be in a borrowed vehicle, a vehicle with trade insurance, there could be a typing error on the insurance database, (eg. your registration ABC 123 may have been put on the database as ABD 123. Consequently ABC 123 shows "Insurance Details Not Held") People forget which address their licence is in, etc, etc, etc.

One thing I always say to these people: "Imagine you are involved in a horrible crash and are unconscious with life threatening injuries. We need to know who you are to get medical records, which could detail vital medical information, and to contact a next of kin (NOK) to rush them to the hospital; perhaps if only to say their goodbyes. Your licence has your photo, name, date of birth and address. Having this information means we stand a chance of identifying who you are and making NOK arrangements immediately.

Hope this helps.

Jim.

[T4Rick]

I thought police stopped giving out producers?

[gmain1967]

Originally Posted by JimG

It is a legal requirement for you to carry your driving licence (this includes both the plastic card and paper counter part if you have the new style licence), MOT (if required) and Certificate of insurance. And you must be able to produce them at the roadside to a Police Officer if required. You commit offences if you don't. However, we have the discretion to issue form HORT/1 (Producer) that allows the driver to produce the documents at a police station of their choice within 7 days. If this is done, and if no offences are disclosed on their production, then that is the end of the matter.

If no documents are produced at the station then you are reported for summons to court for the offence failing to produce at the roadside as well as driving without a licence, driving without Insurance, etc.

We have access to the Motor Insurance Bureau database. This is a good tool but it has limitations. Trade Policies rarely show up. More often than not the result will read "No Insurance Details Held". If you then cannot produce proof of insurance at the roadside you are at risk of having your vehicle seized.

We have access to the DVLA database. Another good system. But we need to be sure that the person in front of us is who they say they are. If you have other photo ID then that may be suitable to satisfy us and the chances are no action will be taken for not having your licence on you; but you have still committed the offence.

So often we are stuck at the roadside with someone for a great deal of time trying to confirm the details they have given us. They could be in a borrowed vehicle, a vehicle with trade insurance, there could be a typing error on the insurance database, (eg. your registration ABC 123 may have been put on the database as ABD 123. Consequently ABC 123 shows "Insurance Details Not Held") People forget which address their licence is in, etc, etc, etc.

One thing I always say to these people: "Imagine you are involved in a horrible crash and are unconscious with life threatening injuries. We need to know who you are to get medical records, which could detail vital medical information, and to contact a next of kin (NOK) to rush them to the hospital; perhaps if only to say their goodbyes. Your licence has your photo, name, date of birth and address. Having this information means we stand a chance of identifying who you are and making NOK arrangements immediately.

Hope this helps.

Jim.

So why in all my years of driving and being on occasion randomly stopped, has no police officer said to me that I should legally be carrying all my documents?

Equally, if my car is stolen and has drivers licence, insurance details etc, what then? The implications of that, I don't really want to think about.

Not trying to start and argument or be clever here, but there seem some fundamental flaws with this as a law which many, myself included, are simply not aware of.

[JimG]

Originally Posted by V70Driver

Failing to produce your licence at road side is not an offence, as with most things connected with driving, ANPR will know whether you should be on the road or not. The officer is entitled to ask for your licence or anything that may identify and confirm who you are. If you can't produce anything, and the officer has "reasonable cause" he can arrest you for what ever offence you were pulled over for, not because you can't produce your licence.
Can you imagine how many people would be arrested at road side checks, minor offences etc for failing to produce a licence at road side.V70Driver

I'm sorry but this is not accurate. It is an offence to not be able to produce your licence (and other documents) at the roadside. It is not an arrestable offence, but in order for us to report you for summons for any offence, we have to be satisfied that we know who you are and that you have a suitable address to which we can serve a summons. If we are not satisfied that we know your correct name, date of birth and address then you can be arrested in order for us to obtain the information we need to serve that summons.

Is it not easier just to carry your licence? Even if it's just the card part.

Jim.

[stevo48]

There you go guys, from the old bill themselves,
http://www.5ive-o.org/forum/archive/...php/t-618.html

[JimG]

Originally Posted by 850Rick

I thought police stopped giving out producers?

The amount issued have dramatically reduced due to the DVLA and MIB databases being available to us.

[JimG]

Originally Posted by gmain1967

So why in all my years of driving and being on occasion randomly stopped, has no police officer said to me that I should legally be carrying all my documents?

Equally, if my car is stolen and has drivers licence, insurance details etc, what then? The implications of that, I don't really want to think about.

Not trying to start and argument or be clever here, but there seem some fundamental flaws with this as a law which many, myself included, are simply not aware of.

Agreed. I carry only my driving licence card in my wallet for ID. I know that my registration is on the MIB database and I am supplying proof of having a driving licence that can then be verified on the DVLA database. I'm still committing offences but hopefully I have done enough to avoid prosecution!

[gmain1967]

Originally Posted by JimG

Agreed. I carry only my driving licence card in my wallet for ID. I know that my registration is on the MIB database and I am supplying proof of having a driving licence that can then be verified on the DVLA database. I'm still committing offences but hopefully I have done enough to avoid prosecution!

Erm, so what are you saying? Technically, it is law to carry these documents but given that it is easy to check electronically, that a "blind eye" is turned to it?!