OT: The end of an era?

[m1tch1987]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

I've spent a few hours over the last couple of days doing emergency pre-winter rust patch-ups on my parents 1999 V40, so excuse my smirk at accusations of poor quality from the S/V40 section of the forum!

As a 300 series fan, I have to regretfully confirm that nothing the factory in Born produced was as well built as the factories in Belgium and Sweden

As for the comments about the smell of Chinese food...leave it out!

cheers

James

My '03 V40 has no rust anywhere at all lol at least you don't own a Merc, the C class saloons of the same age were built in south africa and had shockly shoddy build quality and horrific electrics. I took aaaages to try and find a good and slightly more modern car to replace my previous daily drive but found that most cars in the last 20 years simply aren't built as well as older cars ie car makers are cutting corners for cost reduction.

[DXMachina]

Originally Posted by cumbrianmale

Have to agree there, it was Pheonix Group not BMW who did the asset stripping.

While I have no wish to get sued for libel, to call what Phoenix Group did 'asset-stripping' would imply that it was legal and a legitimate business technique

That is not an allegation I would like to make.
If you called them fraudsters who enriched themselves with a one-off cash grab by failing in the essential duty of a company's board to manage the firm as a going concern, with care to meet the liabilities of the firm, preserve the assets of the business and deliver shareholder value - then I might agree with you

.. if I didn't want to get sued

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by DXMachina

While I have no wish to get sued for libel, to call what Phoenix Group did 'asset-stripping' would imply that it was legal and a legitimate business technique

That is not an allegation I would like to make.
If you called them fraudsters who enriched themselves with a one-off cash grab by failing in the essential duty of a company's board to manage the firm as a going concern, with care to meet the liabilities of the firm, preserve the assets of the business and deliver shareholder value - then I might agree with you

.. if I didn't want to get sued

I love Chinese food, but my German partner hates anything that does not smell of sausage and saukraut. Fortunately my nearest good food place is from Korea, but they do very similar food to the average UK Chinese place.
The poor workers in many far Eastern factories eat on the job due to lack of a lunch hour and that is so difficult when you are fitting something inside a car that accidents are bound to involve the carpets. In India half the poor workers sleep in the factory on the backseats of the cars or trucks under final assembly.

Only farmers who are known for a rather limited sense of smell buy Landrovers, although the Chelsea winebar crowd do buy the bling bling top of the range Range Rovers, but years of sniffing white powder kills your sense of smell, so both groups of loyal customers will not be concerned with where or how their latest status symbol was built. The idea that these cars will not be imported back into the EU in a few years time is a joke from Rover marketing.

No risk of getting taken to court for any comments on the Internet sent from a free mail account unless a criminal act was involved. The costs involved are so high in terms of prosecuting a civil offense, that it would have to be a very wealthy target and an extensive anti Rover campaign that produced clearly defined serious financial consequences for there to be a chance of a civil conviction for libel or slander etc.

[Alex121]

Originally Posted by m1tch1987

Its why I have bought the best model of V40 as I can, they really don't make them like they used to - compare our V40s with the Ford based S40 for example...

I believe the main problem is technology in general, they're not mechanical anymore, too much tech in them.

One of my uncles was recently pretty much forced a company car upon him by his boss - It's a brand new top spec £43,000 BMW 520D and whilst it's like a living room inside there is just too much technology packed into it. Sensors/radars in all the bumpers, sensors monitoring the tyre pressure, the iDrive system is amazing and does so much stuff but a lot of it is all so pointless and unnecessary - Just more to go wrong

My dads T4 is beginning to show it's age now (197k miles) so we took out a V40 D3 yesterday, again, so much pointless stuff, daft airbag in the bonnet, auto lane correction, blind spot crap, more radars and lasers in the bumpers and windscreen - These cars will gradually make people lazy, crap drivers because they're used to their cars doing all the work.

I'm beginning to think the old Volvos were only so good because they were so basic. A simple engine and ECU, seats, wheels, job done - Nothing to go wrong and no computers.

[DXMachina]

Originally Posted by Alex121

I'm beginning to think the old Volvos were only so good because they were so basic. A simple engine and ECU, seats, wheels, job done - Nothing to go wrong and no computers.

It was more than that - comparable cars at the same level of technology did NOT last 200,000 miles or more. Put a 1980 VW Passat, Ford Cortina and Austin Princess next to a 1980 Volvo and send all 4 off to Siberia by road. I'd bet on the Volvo making it, I wouldnt bet against the VW doing it, the other two probably wouldn't and I would bet on that....

[m1tch1987]

Originally Posted by Alex121

I believe the main problem is technology in general, they're not mechanical anymore, too much tech in them.

One of my uncles was recently pretty much forced a company car upon him by his boss - It's a brand new top spec £43,000 BMW 520D and whilst it's like a living room inside there is just too much technology packed into it. Sensors/radars in all the bumpers, sensors monitoring the tyre pressure, the iDrive system is amazing and does so much stuff but a lot of it is all so pointless and unnecessary - Just more to go wrong

My dads T4 is beginning to show it's age now (197k miles) so we took out a V40 D3 yesterday, again, so much pointless stuff, daft airbag in the bonnet, auto lane correction, blind spot crap, more radars and lasers in the bumpers and windscreen - These cars will gradually make people lazy, crap drivers because they're used to their cars doing all the work.

I'm beginning to think the old Volvos were only so good because they were so basic. A simple engine and ECU, seats, wheels, job done - Nothing to go wrong and no computers.

Indeed, there is too much tech in some cars and the engine is covered in plastic so the owner can't check or change anything - the merc auto gearboxes have no dipsticks and are sealed with the fluid in the factory - you aren't ever ment to change the autobox oil!

The highest mileage car is a Volvo P1800 - no computers or electronics to speak of, its just coming up to 3,000,000 miles

[Alex121]

Originally Posted by DXMachina

It was more than that - comparable cars at the same level of technology did NOT last 200,000 miles or more. Put a 1980 VW Passat, Ford Cortina and Austin Princess next to a 1980 Volvo and send all 4 off to Siberia by road. I'd bet on the Volvo making it, I wouldnt bet against the VW doing it, the other two probably wouldn't and I would bet on that....

Some of the older BMWs, Audis and VWs I would say got pretty close to the Volvos, certainly better than all of their recent cars (Volvo included)

Originally Posted by m1tch1987

Indeed, there is too much tech in some cars and the engine is covered in plastic so the owner can't check or change anything - the merc auto gearboxes have no dipsticks and are sealed with the fluid in the factory - you aren't ever ment to change the autobox oil!

The highest mileage car is a Volvo P1800 - no computers or electronics to speak of, its just coming up to 3,000,000 miles

Yep! Even our 2009 S40 T5 is similar and the V40 we took out yesterday you can barely touch, just the usual dipsticks on display and that's it. It's a shame because it handles so much better than every other Volvo, the C30 and older S40 didn't feel as good apparently. Just a shame it's got so much crap. I think if my dad decides to get one it'll be the R-Design when it comes out and probably the most basic model they have lol.

Volvos entire fleet is being replaced within the next year, I'm willing to bet none of them will hit 150,000. My uncle was saying they only have 13 brand new C30s left and once they're gone that's that. Bit sad really, nice cars...

[m1tch1987]

Btw, here are all the recalls on the C30, ive highlighted ones which I think are rather worrying, they seem to be basically on all new Volvos, when you have recalls about failing brakes, seats not being fitted correctly and fires its probably time to think that yes it might be safe if you have an accident, but might not be safe to drive it in the first place!

Recalls

2010 TSB related to rising sump oil levels in D5 Diesel engines with a DPF which is caused by excess fuel entering the engine sump via cylinders during DPF regeneration cycles. The solution is to reprogram the engine management software to reduce the volume of fuel used during the regeneration cycle and drain the excess oil back to midway between the min/max levels on the dip stick, then keep an eye on it. Really, any engine that has had its lube oil contaminated by diesel needs a lube oil change.

12/05/2010 R/2010/051 VOLVO CAR C30, S40, V50, C70, XC60, V70, XC70 & S80. Engine speed may not decrease. VIN 180043 to 569282

11/06/2010 R/2010/071 VOLVO CAR XC70, V70, S80, XC90, C30, S40, V50, C70, XC60. Gearbox may jam. VIN 543653 to 579597

21/09/2010 R/2010/144 VOLVO CAR C30, S40 and V50. Engine may overheat. VIN 590038 to 592370

03/12/2010 R/2010/224 VOLVO CAR C30, S40, V50, S60, V60, XC60, V70, XC70 & S80. Fire may occur. VIN 610264 to 613753

22/12/2010 R/2010/233 VOLVO CAR S40, V50 S60, XC60 Passenger seat may not be fitted correctly. VIN 488548 to 609751

18/02/2011 R/2011/019 VOLVO CAR C30, S40 & V50. Fire may occur. VIN 270042 to 313561

23/03/2011 R/2011/031 VOLVO CAR C30, S40 & V50. Support member may crack. VIN 617057 to 619500

28/06/2011 R/2011/075 VOLVO CAR C30, V50 and S40. Brakes may not perform as expected. VIN 419200 tp 614323

07/09/2011 R/2011/127 VOLVO CAR C30, S40, V50 and C70. Clutch pedal mechanism may fail. VIN 395420 to 627723

01/12/2011 R/2011/163 VOLVO CAR C30, S40, V50 and C70. Fluid may leak into wiring harness which may cause fire. VIN 396179 to 572324

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by m1tch1987

Btw, here are all the recalls on the C30, ive highlighted ones which I think are rather worrying, they seem to be basically on all new Volvos, when you have recalls about failing brakes, seats not being fitted correctly and fires its probably time to think that yes it might be safe if you have an accident, but might not be safe to drive it in the first place!

Recalls

2010 TSB related to rising sump oil levels in D5 Diesel engines with a DPF which is caused by excess fuel entering the engine sump via cylinders during DPF regeneration cycles. The solution is to reprogram the engine management software to reduce the volume of fuel used during the regeneration cycle and drain the excess oil back to midway between the min/max levels on the dip stick, then keep an eye on it. Really, any engine that has had its lube oil contaminated by diesel needs a lube oil change.

12/05/2010 R/2010/051 VOLVO CAR C30, S40, V50, C70, XC60, V70, XC70 & S80. Engine speed may not decrease. VIN 180043 to 569282

11/06/2010 R/2010/071 VOLVO CAR XC70, V70, S80, XC90, C30, S40, V50, C70, XC60. Gearbox may jam. VIN 543653 to 579597

21/09/2010 R/2010/144 VOLVO CAR C30, S40 and V50. Engine may overheat. VIN 590038 to 592370

03/12/2010 R/2010/224 VOLVO CAR C30, S40, V50, S60, V60, XC60, V70, XC70 & S80. Fire may occur. VIN 610264 to 613753

22/12/2010 R/2010/233 VOLVO CAR S40, V50 S60, XC60 Passenger seat may not be fitted correctly. VIN 488548 to 609751

18/02/2011 R/2011/019 VOLVO CAR C30, S40 & V50. Fire may occur. VIN 270042 to 313561

23/03/2011 R/2011/031 VOLVO CAR C30, S40 & V50. Support member may crack. VIN 617057 to 619500

28/06/2011 R/2011/075 VOLVO CAR C30, V50 and S40. Brakes may not perform as expected. VIN 419200 tp 614323

07/09/2011 R/2011/127 VOLVO CAR C30, S40, V50 and C70. Clutch pedal mechanism may fail. VIN 395420 to 627723

01/12/2011 R/2011/163 VOLVO CAR C30, S40, V50 and C70. Fluid may leak into wiring harness which may cause fire. VIN 396179 to 572324

DPF's are one bad idea and they seriously restrict the choice of oil to ones with ash free additives.
The recall list is not great, although Volvo's slow response to some of the electrical fire issues was very silly. The average car made in the fast East will have a similar list, but probably just for one model!
It's also worth considering that when I searched Google for any V40 cam belt failures that had no explanation and were not caused by poor quality parts, way OTT miles, parts like unchanged water pump and obvious installation errors I could not find one, BUT what I did find were belt failures in newer Volvo models that still had their factory belt fitted and were well inside the service limit period. Luckily for some but not all owners Volvo paid for half the repair or all of the repair costs involved.

[jeffreyt]

that is an appalling recall list for a premier brand, are all the Euro and Japanese majors producing new cars of this qualityi?
My last new car was in '98 ,a V40 company car that I was able to take with me when I took an early retirement package.10 years and 100k miles of trouble free,reliable motoring.
Looking at my current V40 (02 reg ) I sometimes think to hell with the kids
legacy I'm going to have a new car and a diesel at that.
However,looking at that list and the comments on DPF related problems
(on this and other forums ) I'm not sure my blood pressure could stand a new car.
For the moment the kids legacy is safe ( I expect it will all go in care home fees anyway -perhaps I should spend it now !)