Times Bike Campaign

[Rowton]

Originally Posted by Villan

Its a very good idea, but unfortunately it falls down at step 1:



They already have about 7 mirrors to look in - any more and by the time they've looked in them all they'll have to start from scratch! Audible turn alarms .. whats wrong with visual ones - like the orange flashing lights in all the corners? (To my knowlege blind people don't regularly cycle down main roads.)
Also - re bars to stop people being thrown under the wheels - Without shrouding the wheels like Citroens of old, that ain't gonna happen.

And even further down with 5:


Testing should be on the Cyclist, not the driver. After all, you have to sit a rather comprehensive driving test, which you can fail if you don't check your mirrors and blind spots.

Most importantly though:
When their reporter makes a recovery, I hope they ask her why she cycled down the inside of a lorry.

Agree with all of this - especially your last point.

So many road users have no appreciation of the natural blind spots that are present in a HGV, not to mention the larger turning circle of such a large vehicle. I genuinely think a lot of people think driving a truck is exactly the same as driving a car.

Not just cyclists, judging by the amount of cars I see trying to nip past lorries on roundabouts in a very risky manner.

[Prufrock]

For what its worth and I haven't read in any detail the posts on this tread, but I've been a cyclist since the age of 4 or 5, a motorcylist since the age of 16 and driven a car for 30+ years.

That is - continual and regular use of them all.

Drivers of cars, vans, trucks DO NOT allow enough room for cyclists or motorcyclists - truck drivers IMO are a big problem as are van drivers.

I couldn't ride a bicycle to school without passing my CTC (Cycling Proficiency Test), all road users should have respect for other road users period - togther with training that reflects the conditions on today's roads (e.g the HGV blind spot issue. Mind you I don't think HGV drivers are either the most caring or alert people on the roads).

The taxes I pay should enable me to ride a bicycle without fear of other road users.

Prufrock.

P.S I am not a born again biker, I have always had a motorcycle in the garage.

[DaveNP]

Originally Posted by Prufrock

Mind you I don't think HGV drivers are either the most caring or alert people on the roads).

The taxes I pay should enable me to ride a bicycle without fear of other road users.

As a truck driver- that's allright mate, no offence taken! But seriously I know what you mean, a number of my 'colleagues' make me cringe with their lack of roadcraft and bad attitude.
As for riding without fear, well again I have to agree with your sentiment, but too often bike riders are just crazily fearless when a little fear may keep them out of trouble. I should be able to walk down the street unmolested, but I choose which neighbourhood to walk in on after dark and if there's a large ferocious dog in the way I don't try to step over it just because it's my right to walk down the street. If you know truck drivers are homicidal maniacs (present company excepted) do your best to keep away from them.
It took a number of years but I finally got through to my wife that when she's driving it doesn't matter who's right of way or whose lane it is, the best policy is not to mix it with a truck, even in a Volvo you're going to loose, hang back, give it room to manouver, then zoom past when you get to the dual carriageway!

[tt82]

Quite good timing - The Daily Mash - Bikes and cars fundamentally incompatible

[stephend]

Originally Posted by DaveNP

Point 4 of the suggested improvements is interesting to a resident of Milton Keynes. Practically all of the main roads (our infamous 'grid system') are accompanied by the 'redway' system, a network of cycleways (tarmaced in red), to seperate cyclists from 70mph traffic on the dual carriageways of the grid roads, yet still cyclists insist on using the dual carriageway, a 70mph dual carriageway is not a good place for a bicycle especially when within yards there is a cycle path, So having spent millions of road tax money where will the untaxed cyclist choose to ride?

I recall that, not long after the redways opened, somebody thought it would be funny to pull a log across the path on an unlit section. An elderly man rode into it, broke his neck and died. Then somebody thought it would be funny to string wires across at neck height, and there was at least one near-fatality. For a time, the police patrolled on mopeds - but that was soon stopped because it was deemed to be too dangerous for them. And then there were the unlit underpasses, and all those nice shrubberies for muggers to lurk in. So the redways weren't quite the safe haven they were intended to be.

Not sure they were built out of road tax money, by the way: I suspect the MK Development Corporation actually funded their construction, though I don't know for certain.

I do agree, it's crazy to cycle in the road when there's a perfectly good cycle path. When I'm cycling, I use cycle paths wherever available, and when I'm driving, I get annoyed when I get stuck behind a cyclist on the road when there's a decent cycle path right next to it.

But it's not always quite such a no-brainer as you make out.

[GMad]

Some cyclists appear to have little or no regard for the highway code and thus are vulnerable.
I drive a car (the bulk of my mileage), a motorcycle (when the weather's nice), an HGV (very rarely) and my mountain bike (usually to go to the local shop or pub).
Whatever it is I am driving/riding, I do my best to observe the rules as laid down in the highway code and consiquently rarely have issues with other road users.
My opinion is that cyclists should perhaps spend more time abiding by the rule of the road and thus making themselves less vulenarable. So maybe better or even compulsory training should be a legal requirement?

[Rowton]

Originally Posted by DaveNP

... it doesn't matter who's right of way or whose lane it is, the best policy is not to mix it with a truck, even in a Volvo you're going to loose, hang back, give it room to manouver, then zoom past when you get to the dual carriageway!

Amazed how many people seem to fail to grasp this basic principle.

Had a close shave with a truck a few years ago, I had given the driver (in left hand lane on 3 lane roundabout) plenty of room, before he swung across to turn right without indicating, luckily with the space I had given I was able to avoid him.

I’m very cautious with overtaking trucks, in particular on roundabouts where I just hang back behind the trailer, in sight of the tractor unit’s mirrors. Almost always get tailgated when I do this, usually by some idiot in a Corsa or similar, always amusing to then get past the truck on the dual carriageway, drop the accelerator and watch the tailgater disappear in the rear view mirror!

[DaveNP]

Originally Posted by Rowton

Had a close shave with a truck a few years ago, I had given the driver (in left hand lane on 3 lane roundabout) plenty of room, before he swung across to turn right without indicating, luckily with the space I had given I was able to avoid him.

I’m very cautious with overtaking trucks, in particular on roundabouts where I just hang back behind the trailer, in sight of the tractor unit’s mirrors.

There's a lot more foreign trucks on UK roads nowadays and they often use the left lane to edge onto a roundabout before turning right, can scare the life out of you if you don't expect it, to be fair to them I wouldn't want to drive a left hand drive onto a UK roundabout as the sightlines from the cab are all wrong.

But for holding back at junctions A BIG THANKYOU.

[Gazdok]

I have been cycling a lot all over Europe - Holland, Norway, Germany down to the tip of Spain and the Uk - and I find the road system and paticularly traffic lights / junctions better designed in continental Europe.
Roads are wider / feel wider, often there is a cycle path in towns and a combined cycle path / foot path along out of town A-roads.
Junctions are designed with more room, cars stop further away from the crossing, it does not feel so squashed into the crossing as over here. Even as a car driver driving in cont. Europe I do not need to bend my neck to see the traffic light, there is usually more distance to it. Simply the UK is tighter with the money for infrastructure.
Also many UK drivers do not expect to see bicycles and some simply hate them. In Germany it seemed to be Mercs and Beemer drivers, in France young blokes were very cavalier in their attitude and Holland was most cycle friendly - nothing new here.
What allowed me to "survive" as a cyclist and biker often was a sixth sense. Slightly exaggerated I try to imagine who might like to kill me next. If you do not have this survival instinct / road sense you just dance into the "trap".

I think this campaign is a little over the top. If a cyclist does not see the eyes of the driver the eyes do not see the cyclist.
Lorries have plenty of mirrors already......
What will bells and whistles do if a cyclist is not even looking...

And the Highway code is a little out dated in some areas and has never been written with a cyclist in mind - certainly not with me trying to cover some distance on a modern bicycle. But anyway try and stick to it as much as possible.

[waylander]

Originally Posted by tt82

Quite good timing - The Daily Mash - Bikes and cars fundamentally incompatible

kinda sums up my thoughts on things....

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/index....tent&task=view