What happened to OEM?

[TruckbusUK]

You would be surprised, I have worked in several industries that supply OEM, tyres, electronics and filters ... and they may look the same but some companies insist that their IPR is not eroded by the same kit being sold by the supplier under the suppliers name, so check the part number ... if its not the same then regardless of the fitment its not the same part regardless of the manufacturer.

Example, Renault and Volvo both used to use the same engine filter manufacturer for canister filters ... they look the same they are painted the same, the fitment is the same but the aftermarket ones often do not contain a pressure bypass valve, or if it does it is not of the same pressure rating.

Manufacturers often get requests for a filter for example that conforms to a certain specification, that may be a straight lift from the parts bin and repackaged in the vehicle manufacturers colours/box/logo ... others as in my previous example are not and if covered by IPR then it will never be the same part ... volumes for this type of customisation or contract supply can be surprisingly low ... as low as several hundred units, the aluminium casings etc may be the same but what's inside can vary hugely in quality and performance.

My point is you can not assume the parts are the same regardless, oh and a point of note Volvo do actually manufacture some parts in house using 3rd party companies, an example is brake disks are made at a Volvo onsite forge by ATe and only go on Volvo cars ... so assumption can be a dangerous thing, but buyers choice, and don't assume OEM means anything today, its so abused it is almost worthless.

I should also say that in any of the companies I have worked for the OE business and the after market business are usually run fairly independently although sharing the same manufacturing facilities.

Hopefully not a lecture (that is not what was intended) just some info for clarification.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

I agree.

I do not for one minute believe that Volvo "genuine" parts, which are made by another company are better quality than the ones that you can buy aftermarket made by the same company. For example, Volvo use Sachs shock absorbers. When I fitted a set of "genuine" shocks, they had Sachs stamps on them... fair enough, Volvo don't make shocks. However, I do not believe that they were any different to the ones that I could have got off Euro Car Parts stamped Sachs at a fraction of the price Volvo were charging. They look identical to me and likely are.

If genuine parts really are better quality, that would mean parts manufacturers would have to make the same parts and differentiate quality standards for different manufacturers. So a Mercedes shock would have to be better quality than say whoever manufactured it in the first place because its a Mercedes... That simply isn't realistic. The parts manufacturer's make the parts (not the car brand) and supply them to the car brands across the world. There's no difference in quality between a Sachs shock bought from Euro Car Parts than a Sachs shock bought from the main dealer. Its the same part made by the same company. If they were to make parts with different levels of quality to suit individual manufacturers, it would cost an absolute fortune with extra staff, storage faculties and so on.

This is why you can find so many parts that fit different cars. Some Ford parts fit Volvo for example. If I went to Ford and bought a part for my Volvo, that part isn't any different to the one I buy in Volvo. Its likely made by the same company anyway.

well I'm telling you this because I have worked for volvo for 47 years so know . you can believe your own theories if you wish It makes no difference to me , I'm just passing on my Experience working at the front end. Most vehicle are made in different qualities take ball bearings for example you can get the cheap ones for the central heating boiler fan for £2 each they last about 5 years or you can get the better quality ones at £7 each which last forever more or less. It is the same with suspension dampers wiper blades and every other car part. Volvo have always chosen the best quality they can get , I cant speak about the current cars as not much has worn out or broken yet.

[Martin Cox]

I've always gone for the genuine Volvo part whenever it's a safety critical part or there is a fair amount of work in fitting it, or the consequences of it failing are severe.

A problem arises if you have an older vehicle where Volvo have discontinued the part you need. You are then forced into either trying to find old stock or using alternative parts. Here it is very useful to have some idea of the quality and a part from a manufacturer who supplied Volvo seems, assuming the part isn't a fake, likely to be a safer bet than something unknown.

I'm more likely to trust a shock absorber from Sachs than the Chung-Yan Seng shock absorber factory (other suppliers are available!) at a quarter the price. They may of course be excellent but the odds are against it.

Martin

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by Clan

well I'm telling you this because I have worked for volvo for 47 years so know . you can believe your own theories if you wish It makes no difference to me , I'm just passing on my Experience working at the front end. Most vehicle are made in different qualities take ball bearings for example you can get the cheap ones for the central heating boiler fan for £2 each they last about 5 years or you can get the better quality ones at £7 each which last forever more or less. It is the same with suspension dampers wiper blades and every other car part. Volvo have always chosen the best quality they can get , I cant speak about the current cars as not much has worn out or broken yet.

You can believe your theory too... I think its bs personally. You may not think that, which is fine. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

A Sachs shock from Euro's or any other supplier is no different to a Sachs shock that you buy from Volvo with a Volvo stamp on it. It was made by Sachs, not Volvo and its Sachs that supply the parts to Volvo to fit to their cars and sell for repairs. They aren't going to make an individual batch of shocks that are higher quality just for Volvo. Sorry, I don't believe that for one minute.

I've fitted genuine shocks on cars and aftermarket made by the same brand... there's absolutely no difference in how the car drives after replacement. The parts look the same, the car drives the same. The only difference is the price because its not in a blue box with Volvo stamped on it.

As Martin says above, when a car gets older, its not always possible to buy genuine parts. They either get discontinued or are much more expensive than a quality aftermarket brand. On an old car that isn't worth much, buying genuine parts is often a costly exercise. Depending on what needs fixing, it can easily outweigh the value of the vehicle going down the genuine route.

People need to remember that there's quality aftermarket brands out there too. Not everything is cheap junk. Buy from reputable brands like Gates or ContiTech for timing belts, Brembo for brakes, Mann for filters and INA for pulleys and so on. Not every aftermarket brand is cheap junk. You just have to research.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by YorkshireDave

Thing is Clan, Volvo actually manufacture almost nothing. They design around what's available & buy in, as any business would. If you are sensible, and do your due diligence, which can be a real pain, you can indeed buy from the same sources, the same (consumable) products as they are almost always used on other vehicles.

Without doubt there is an element of risk. However, the flip side is that it's possible to buy the same quality but at huge savings. Whilst typing this it occurs to me that perhaps it may be possible to open a dedicated thread so that people can contribute their 'findings' in this regard?

Marks and Spencer manufacture nothing but you cannot buy their branded food other clothing from anywhere else. Equally - Sainsburys own label baked beans are nothing like Heinz.

In automotive world, the contracts for people who supply parts to car assembly plants are strictly forbidden from selling it through any other route than the brand. Be that brake pads or washer fluid. Whilst the same manufacturer may sell compatible parts, they will not be made to the same standards as those for the brands.

Also Volvo do manufacture more than you might realise, they still case their own discs for the bigger P2/P3 models (done by Volvo truck & bus under license).

My other half works for Continental who own the Teves factory in Ebbw Vale who make all the brakes for Jaguar/Land Rover - it's the same principle there. Whilst you can buy Teves branded pads - they are not the same and never will be.

I absolutely get that as cars get older the benefits of fitting branded parts diminishes in some cases, and a 2007 200k mile V70 will likely drive much better with a Meyle or Lemforder/ZF set of bushes than the knackered originals - but that's a different issue. In some cases on a tight budget I would still prefer to fit a second hand Volvo original than cheap part from ebay (wheel bearings, starters etc.)

[TruckbusUK]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

They aren't going to make an individual batch of shocks that are higher quality just for Volvo. Sorry, I don't believe that for one minute.

Sorry, but having been employed by some of the largest suppliers in the industry your assumption is plain wrong, production runs of parts in the hundreds are common place (as well as thousands and million of units.) it is what is specified by the customer, and as I said if that's covered by IPR then it will not be the same ... canister wall thickness, materials used in the damper seals, quality of oil used etc can all be tweaked or changed at the request of the customer or as specified. Yes the damper may well be designed by the OE, but it will be to the customer spec and if covered by IPR then will only ever be available to that customer.

Have a look at tyres, same tyre model but with a moulded application ID on the sidewall ... Audi, BMW, Merc etc ... the tyre compound or wall stiffness etc will be tweaked to the customer specs, but they wont be the same as similar tyre models with the same name.

You are obviously free to believe what you want,and its your cash to spend as you wish, but I've been there and done(witnessed) in action, that is honestly not how it works.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by Martin Cox

I've always gone for the genuine Volvo part whenever it's a safety critical part or there is a fair amount of work in fitting it, or the consequences of it failing are severe.

A problem arises if you have an older vehicle where Volvo have discontinued the part you need. You are then forced into either trying to find old stock or using alternative parts. Here it is very useful to have some idea of the quality and a part from a manufacturer who supplied Volvo seems, assuming the part isn't a fake, likely to be a safer bet than something unknown.

I'm more likely to trust a shock absorber from Sachs than the Chung-Yan Seng shock absorber factory (other suppliers are available!) at a quarter the price. They may of course be excellent but the odds are against it.

Martin

You mention fakes - on a Mk1 XC90 FB forum there's a thread where several members bought Brembo brake disc and pads from a large established e-bay store of a car parts seller and had issues - turns out they're fake...

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by TruckbusUK

Sorry, but having been employed by some of the largest suppliers in the industry your assumption is plain wrong, production runs of parts in the hundreds are common place (as well as thousands and million of units.) it is what is specified by the customer, and as I said if that's covered by IPR then it will not be the same

I would phrase it differently but yes this is the case. And the car manufacturer will reserve the right to enter the factory at any time and check on the production and components of their parts.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by TruckbusUK

Sorry, but having been employed by some of the largest suppliers in the industry your assumption is plain wrong, production runs of parts in the hundreds are common place (as well as thousands and million of units.) it is what is specified by the customer, and as I said if that's covered by IPR then it will not be the same ... canister wall thickness, materials used in the damper seals, quality of oil used etc can all be tweaked or changed at the request of the customer or as specified. Yes the damper may well be designed by the OE, but it will be to the customer spec and if covered by IPR then will only ever be available to that customer.

Have a look at tyres, same tyre model but with a moulded application ID on the sidewall ... Audi, BMW, Merc etc ... the tyre compound or wall stiffness etc will be tweaked to the customer specs, but they wont be the same as similar tyre models with the same name.

You are obviously free to believe what you want,and its your cash to spend as you wish, but I've been there and done(witnessed) in action, that is honestly not how it works.

Fair enough.

[ltec]

Forget about the genuine volvo snobs on here that have no experience of fitting good quality after market parts. For example when you buy your skf wheel bearing or whatever it may be for half the price of the main stealer you can be assured skf is putting the quality into it and won't let you down.