Winter Wheels fitted

[I Feel Old]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

My experience has also been that winters are exceptional at clearing standing water, for what it’s worth.

That's not what the evidence of the video posted by Tannaton shows.

[foggyjames]

I have watched it yet. In fairness, the main episode I’m basing that on was when I had a brand new set fitted, and it waded through some deep puddles at speed like they weren’t there. But that might be more to do with tread depth than pattern. Whatever the reason, it was remarkable. A number of people in the car at the time passed comment.

I wouldn’t be surprised if some dedicated wet weather tyres (Uniroyal Rainexpert) were better.

cheers

James

[I Feel Old]

Have a look, the stopping distance was 14% poorer on the winter tyres in the wet.

Originally Posted by Haldex

...he who dismisses the science cannot be converted.

Well I'm certainly a believer in science and going with the evidence rather than hearsay.

[I Feel Old]

Originally Posted by “MaDProFF”

I think everyone in this thread has posted who have used winter tyres in the past, have said they are an improvement, some like me who think they are worth leaving on all year around, some who think they are not worth the investment, (there is none really) for the amount of winter weather we get, but admit they are far better.

Far better at what? On ice and snow, I've said a thousand times I accept that. However as you say there has been very little this year so the benefits have been somewhat negated. The Michelins tested in the video were certainly MUCH worse at braking in the wet, so that kinda undermines your claims immediately.

Originally Posted by “MaDProFF”

I think it is only YOU that still seems to ? that they are better at all and a waste of time in the UK.

Please point me to where I have suggested any such thing.

Originally Posted by “MaDProFF”

My Passion is that I think they are so good, that people will benefit by having winter tyres on their cars who have to drive daily early in the morning, and late at night, even in rush hour times on real icy mornings, which is quite common in the winter oh and in the south. (though tbh this year so far has been pretty exceptional, still know of people though who have crashed due to ice so far this year), they even perform better on slippery gritted roads in cold weather.

Ah, I see. If one drives early morning or late evening then winter tyres are the way to go, as long as you ignore all other driving those people do? And all to be believed based on your passion. MaDProFF, your passion is such I doubt there are many on here would be surprised if you deemed winter tyres better irrespective of how they performed?

Originally Posted by “MaDProFF”

What I do not like is people like you who have actually not driven on winter tyres to make so many inaccurate opinionated comments on them, as I know once you had driven with them in conditions that they really suit, all the other differences would become irrelevant.

Again please point me at where I have made inaccurate opinionated comments?
I'm told my experience of driving is worthless, driving cars, trucks, riding bikes, all across the Highlands (which are supposedly winter tyres territory), all worthless…because not only do you know best…you know me best.

Hardly a recipe for convincing people of the value of your statements.

[I Feel Old]

…cont'd

The conclusion I'm reaching from this thread is that there is undoubtedly a much better performance from winter tyres in the winter, which is so significant it could make a difference. However, our temperate climate makes the fitting of them during winter months a bit more complex than a black and white decision. I'm leaning towards there probably being more benefit to having them on when icy and snowy than having summer tyres on when around 10 degrees, however given our climate it appears a close call with some years it being a good decision and not so during the mild winters.

A much clearler decision for those living, in say, Chamonix.

And I guess an even easier decision if living in Zermatt.

One thing I am certain of is that it is wise to take with a pinch of salt the claims made by those who enthusiastically mark off the days on the calendar until the date to fit their winter tyres, come what may.

Folks, is there a word limit to any single post I had to spread this reply over two?

[foggyjames]

You mention the “14% worse” finding in the video repeatedly. Whilst I’m willing to accept that that *may* be universal (although I think the jury’s out!), I’m not sure 14% is “MUCH” worse. On the other hand, the braking performance on snow demonstrated in the video I posted a few pages back really is “MUCH” worse.

cheers

James

[Billggski]

Just catching up with this thread, I always fit winter tyres on both my cars come November.
They are cold weather tyres, not just snow tyres, and the Dunlop 01 summer tyres I had previously were clearly stated to be only suitable above 6C. Most mornings from now until Easter may well start off below this temperature as you go to work.
All weather tyres are now being made as this problem has now been recognised, but are a compromise.

[MikeGMT]

Thought I might wade into this debate, well maybe just dip my big toe in.

I have never had winter tyres, nor any experience of driving on them, I've seen all the videos and reviews extolling their abilities, and they are certainly impressive in the right circumstances.

Having worked in the Midlands for 20 years this meant I had a 90 mile commute from East Yorkshire at very early hours and had no problems regarding getting to work in the winter months on normal tyres.

When I got my car I did contemplate fitting a set of winter tyres but clearly haven't needed them. If the circumstances had dictated otherwise I would have no hesitation in fitting them.

[I Feel Old]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

You mention the “14% worse” finding in the video repeatedly. Whilst I’m willing to accept that that *may* be universal (although I think the jury’s out!),

As I point out in my post, James, I do not take it as read that it is universal. If the video is questionable in one direction, it is also questionable in the other.

Another way of looking at the comparison; if the summer tyre had stopped the vehicle 2m before hitting a pedestrian the winter tyre would have knocked them over and not stopped before the pedestrian came out the back, and that's at 10 degrees in wet weather, what about 15 degrees in the dry?

To me 14% in those conditions is a major difference, however my main point is it shows MaDProFF's claims of how good winter tyres are in the wet for what they are…unscientific opinion which is very questionable.

Originally Posted by foggyjames

...the braking performance on snow demonstrated in the video I posted a few pages back really is “MUCH” worse.

I don't question their performance in snow. But here in the Highlands there's much more rain than there is snow, by quite a margin.

I'm getting dizzy in this thread, I'm not out to convince anyone not to fit winter tyres, nor, despite what many accuse me of, am I claiming winter tyres are not superior in the winter. As I have repeatedly said; I am questioning the benefits of fitting them over the whole of the winter weather, just because it's Winter.

I have repeatedly asked for evidence which supports their benefits over the whole winter weather and so far have received none (demonstrating how good they are in snow does not count as the whole winter weather suitability), I have been offered opinion and stories in an attempt to convince, I have even been personally attacked, but heh ho, no hard evidence.

[foggyjames]

I don’t have any evidence to hand, I’m afraid. That’s not to say there isn’t any

I would suggest that winter tyres would offer excellent warm dry braking performance, as they tend to be a soft compound. It might wear them quickly though. I suspect that the “14%” test is against a tyre designed to excel in wet conditions - I’ve cerrainly never had summer tyres which would outperform winters in wet conditions (entirely subjectively), but it wouldn’t surprise me if something like Rainsports would.

“Wets” vs winters for the British climate is an interesting discussion point. I’m pretty convinced that the tyre industry doesn’t serve us well with the typical “summers”, though (he says, with a set of four on his V70!).

cheers

James