Horses have fled, turtle is back...

[Arianne]

@Flux...

Mine is a manual gearbox. So can't help you with that.

However, what I am about to say should be of interest to everyone with a new VEA engine and I think it has profound implications:

"Underperformance from my VEA engine was not always accompanied by the Turtle message nor the Check Engine amber light. The turtle comes and goes, but the engine's underperformance remained constant.

The implications of this are that folk may well be driving their cars unconscious of the fact that the engine is underperforming. I think we have discussed the effect of 'gradualism' on us humans in another thread on this excellent forum? When performance declines gradually we tend not to notice. We would notice (a) step change or (b) a warning message.

I myself can testify to the fact that my dealer has twice performed the 'rebirth' of my VEA engine performance. On the first occasion I simply jumped for joy at the experience of driving our car - it only lasted ten days! And that emotion was supplanted with the realisation that I had been driving an underperforming car for months

And then, ten days later, the turtle returned and engine performance sank again. But, after a couple of weeks the turtle migrated although the engine performance remained unchanged - i.e. uninspiring.

And, as at 6 April the dealer has restored performance.

Question: if I wasn't now fully conscious of the fragile performance of this engine would I have spotted the issue without the warning light / message? I think not, as is evident from my early 2015 driving experience in blissful ignorance (I just concluded that maybe my car wasn't truly as good as I had nostalgically recalled).

What Flux' post highlights is that there are many varied reasons why this engine may suffer poor performance - EGR, cooling pump, swirl flaps, inlet manifold sensor malfunction etc. But unless a warning message is displayed there is a high likelihood that a good many of us will accept the lacklustre performance.

Not good IMHO.

Arianne.

PS. At least it's been fun driving her this week!

[Parky12]

Glad you are back on song Arianne

Enjoy the drive and long may it stay

[REDSHEEPRIDD]

Totally agree.

My first XC90 had a burst inter cooler which took months to finally blow out, but the difference when renewed was like fitting another turbo.

[Flux]

Originally Posted by Arianne

@Flux...

Mine is a manual gearbox. So can't help you with that.

However, what I am about to say should be of interest to everyone with a new VEA engine and I think it has profound implications:.............

Thanks for your update Arianne. Like you say, if there is something wrong somewhere within the engine then you would hope it is flagged by the electronics. You just expect modern cars to work at peak efficiency and if they don't then send out a fault code. This is worrying as you will never know what the XC60 is really thinking - an ailment without obvious symptoms! I do hope Volvo are on the case and will come clean that there are issues as it's not great for the brand - of potential purchasers who are thinking of buying - what about the XC90 that's just about to be launched!

This reminds me of the 'bad old days' when there was no diagnostic equipment and just a suck-and-see attitude prevailed. I remember having a Maestro as my first company car that just spluttered and lacked any power (yes, I know that they didn't have much to start with) and went back to the dealer several times with no improvement. So I had a look under the bonnet and noticed the distributor cap was cracked............a £5 part solved the problem! But nowadays cars are so complex that it might be a fault in the programming of the software that causes the problems! You ain't gunna see that with a cursory glance under the bonnet.

Sorry, I digress but what exactly did your dealer do the other day to get your car back to full power? Maybe I need a little bit of what you had although don't think my issues have been anywhere as disappointing as yours - yet!

[wimorrison]

I suffered from the gradual reduction in performance on the last XC60 and wasn't aware in an absolute sense but did feel it wasn't as good as it should have been, though I continued on with it.

I got it back from service and though what an amazing car, i thought they had changed the engine - actually all they had done was replace the DPF sensor which had failed and was holding the performance down

Similar story, except that the dealer fixed it for me without any chasing from me and I wasn't considering that there was anything wrong

[andymcp]

Originally Posted by Flux

...

Also noticed though that since the apparent engine management software update that was done as part of the service, the geartronic does seem less smooth than it did and at times is a bit ponderous. I notice the gear changes a little more now yet never really did much before. Also, just recently when I went to accelerate the car seemed to dither a little and not sure whether to change down or just stick with the gear it was in. Rather disconcerting and seemed to last a couple of seconds.

I noticed this Flux, and was slightly alarmed as it happened just as the engine was brought back to life after EGR issues were finally resolved. I've put a few thousand miles on the car since then though and it has really settled back down again, and with a lot of those miles being gear-change heavy twisty A roads I did wonder if there was something of the gearbox re-learning my driving style after some kind of re-set? I do recall someone saying that geartronics do adapt to your driving styles, and when the software update was applied mine had learned mine over 21,000 miles. When I got it back, it was as if it had forgotten all about my right foot.

It's definitely not just me getting used to it again either - Mrs McP commented the other day after a short drive how much smoother the car was again compared to immediately after the service/software update.

[Flux]

Thanks for your response andymcp. Not just me imagining it then! This engine management update (at the service) must reset all that it has learnt from previous driving. If that is indeed the case then I hope things will settle down like they have done for you. TBH haven't done a huge amount of mileage lately so maybe the car is re-learning my style or driving - if that is indeed what it has to do.

Just why can't the dealers tell you this or give you a bit of info about what has taken place and the difference you might notice so you know what to expect. Saves you thinking that there might be something wrong and then less likely for you to go back to them to query it. Not rocket science is it.......

I remember with a previous Volvo after a service I checked the oil level after a few days (when not electronic dipsticks!) and noticed it was only 2/3rds full. I called them and asked if they had changed the oil as it was lower than before it went in. They had changed it only didn't fill to the top due to possible damage to DPF by rising oil levels during regeneration. Told them that this was important information they should impart on owners as I could have topped up and buggered up my DPF! Not great dealer/customer interaction - but who would have footed the bill for a repair if that happened - not our fault guv but it'll cost you a grand+!?

[Arianne]

Originally Posted by Flux

Sorry, I digress but what exactly did your dealer do the other day to get your car back to full power? Maybe I need a little bit of what you had although don't think my issues have been anywhere as disappointing as yours - yet!

So all I can tell you is that they said they had replaced a faulty temperature sensor which was fooling the engine into thinking it was running too hot (I think). This is in turn meant that the car underperformed. Whether this is the same as the Plenum Sensor on the inlet / intake manifold, I am unsure - that's what they thought it was before they took the car back in. The Technician and the dealer's vice-principal both confirmed that they had seen one other VEA car with a similar symptom and that this had solved it for that customer.

Today we had the car back in the countryside. I have seen highland cows, various breeds of sheep & lambs, numerous dogs (some in kennels, some of the back of quad-bikes and a few affectionately jumping all over me) while we have been speaking to the farmers and gamekeepers. And our XC60 continues to perform properly with no turtle, long may it continue.

Regards,

Arianne

[craigv60]

Originally Posted by Arianne

So all I can tell you is that they said they had replaced a faulty temperature sensor which was fooling the engine into thinking it was running too hot (I think). This is in turn meant that the car underperformed. Whether this is the same as the Plenum Sensor on the inlet / intake manifold, I am unsure

There are a couple of sensors mounted on the plastic inlet manifold, one will be manifold pressure (i.e. boost pressure) and the other probably the charge air temperature.

Oddly, my previous V60 D3 had the charge air temp sensor mounted on the exit of the intercooler, which is arguably a better place to put it ...

[simonjedrake]

Originally Posted by Arianne

Today we had the car back in the countryside. I have seen highland cows, various breeds of sheep & lambs, numerous dogs (some in kennels, some of the back of quad-bikes and a few affectionately jumping all over me) while we have been speaking to the farmers and gamekeepers. And our XC60 continues to perform properly with no turtle, long may it continue.

Regards,

Arianne

Arianne.
I love reading your posts and getting into your humour..........and hearing your fascination with animals of all shapes & sizes especially Turtles.
But I keep on wondering what is your profession........you are not a zoo keeper are you with a marine tank?