From XC60 to Porsche Macan or BMW X3?

[wimorrison]

The ignition temperature of diesel is 200C +/- 50% depending on the type and quality of diesel being used, but is always above the boiling point of water therefore you don't need to worry on that count.

It is true that a 2 stroke diesel doesn't like being left to idle with no load and this can coke up the ports due to incomplete combustion however 5 minutes under load sorts this problem although it also suffocates anyone nearly due to the clouds of smoke that are generated - ask ex-military people about K60 or L60 engines and for non-military cast your mind back to the Deltic engines used on the railways.

Low speed diesels (<500rpm) can also, to a limited extent, suffer due to the type of fuel used in the them.

The modern car diesel engine is a high speed, 4 stroke engine and would have to idle for an awfully long time to do any damage.

[Ninja59]

Originally Posted by andymcp

Ha! Erm....no, not really.

I'm not really someone won over by design for design's sake. And that appears to be what the X4 and 6 are (subjectivity clause applying, as ever).

On the pre-heat front, that remote start function is a very sad miss - my one regret is not ticking it in the options list when I ordered, before the UK was added to the list of excluded countries. Very frustrating when it's just a software tweak (and a new fob if you don't have the right one) rather than installing a whole additional heater to carry around for those few chilly mornings....

It depends really technically many of Germans are filling niche's at a rate of knots, some with even more complex and long reasoning (agreed the BMW X4, X6 and some of 4 and 6 range fall into that equation). Volvo did the same with the C30 technically.

In a way the X4 is more of a direct competitor to the Macan than the X3. Technically BMW could have easily just had the 1,3,5,7 and some of the X range (1,3,5), but there is a market for more heavily styled cars like these soft SUV's, however the 4 and 6 definitely have one of the more confusing cases, but BMW are right to cater to the market as displayed below.

4 series - technically a two door version of the 3 series (I will ignore the 3GT which is one of the most confusing concept's ever), however of course you have the 4 series Gran Coupe version.

6 series - technically a two door version of the 5 series (I will ignore the 5GT which is another confusing concept), however of course you have the 6 Gran Coupe. Of which 92% of 6 series sales are now the Gran Coupe.

Either way you make it these cars have a market even if they are four door versions of a two door coupe with two extra doors re-added.

In a similar style to the X4 and X6, whilst all four have what could be described as "limited appeal" beyond the normal more mainstream range demand is there for them. In some cases despite the "higher" list price the discounts are more readily available as the manufacturer struggles to shift them (of course naturally by more heavy styling you compromise in other areas).

I suppose I am a prime example of accepting this "compromise", I could have gone for a 5, discounting the 3 and 4 mainly on looks, after all a large percentage of the engines in slightly different states of tune are in those lower series cars as well. However, whilst the 6 gran coupe is more to buy than a 5 the amount of kit on offer is greater in standard specification and a 5 if bought new with those items it would be more.

Furthermore, you can get far more discount on a 6 than a 5 meaning the 6 is actually cheaper to buy than the same engine in a 5.

Overall, in many cases it all it boils down to is the compromise of some headroom and boot space.....

[Harvey1512]

That made my head hurt.

[andymcp]

I understand (sort of) what niches they are trying to fill, but for me there comes a point where it's as if they are just churning out models for the hell of it. I do wonder how big are the volume gains vs the costs for cranking yet another fill-the-gap model. The entire Mini range after the straight hatch and Cooper would be an obvious example of this.

Still, it would be very dull if everyone liked the same thing.

[Ninja59]

The actual costs of cranking another niche model is actually not that "big".

Like so many cars the underlying really expensive item being the chassis development is not that big as a lot of the niche models simply use a pre existing structure. This is now made even easier by the more modular platforms being developed like Volvo's SPA - which either way anyone puts it currently with confirmed models or released is the XC90, S90 and V90. Chances are the S60 and XC60 will also go on to be on the SPA as well. Which only leaves the '40 series of Volvo cars which there is already reasonable confirmation of a compact modular chassis in development.

If we take the BMW 6 chassis as an easy example it covers - 5 series, 6 series, 7 series (F01 previous model not the new one), RR Ghost, RR Wraith and RR Dawn - all chassis made at Dingolfing (as an aside I think the RR Phantom chassis is made here as well, albeit a bespoke chassis). The only difference is the length.

In relation to technical systems and networking within the car, the electrical systems are highly similar as most of the tech on them is the same.

So the only real costs to them developing the new car is the styling (external and internal), possible alteration of the chassis length, some suspension development work and before you know it you have a new car.

[Arianne]

Originally Posted by andymcp

I understand (sort of) what niches they are trying to fill, but for me there comes a point where it's as if they are just churning out models for the hell of it. I do wonder how big are the volume gains vs the costs for cranking yet another fill-the-gap model. The entire Mini range after the straight hatch and Cooper would be an obvious example of this. Still, it would be very dull if everyone liked the same thing.

It seems that, apart from the divided opinion about the beauty (or otherwise) of the X4, this issue of micro-niche / micro-segments in the car market is one of the other popular themes when folk are airing an opinion about this BMW model.

Having reviewed road test video and web articles from on-line sources across seven continents (well, six actually since the good people of Greenland haven't yet felt the need to join the web with X4 reviews), there are many which begin with the reference to BMW choosing to create the X4 and answer a question that nobody is asking - i.e. why the world needs what they call a Sports Activity Coupe (SAC rather than SUV). Typically, the journalist then becomes quite animated about it and this issue seems, in my opinion, to then assume a significance in the review that it doesn't deserve. I guess that's why they're journalists and I am not

However, I don't subscribe to this preoccupation about BMW's decision to 'mine out' small segments of the market and whether that's logical or valuable in any way....... why should any of us care, except for the accountants in Munich?

Whether we end up choosing to acquire a car like the X4 or, more scarily, a Nissan Juke (previously listed as an example on an earlier post), it seems to me that we should celebrate any car manufacturer that gives us all more choice. Some of that choice may well prove irrelevant to many of us but, on the balance or probability, a small amount will prove valuable. It's a no-cost option for the great buying public and can be no bad thing - unless of course the concept is so truly awful that it is having an adverse impact upon our quality of life. Perhaps a BMW X4 35d in my rear view mirror might have such an effect upon me! But it won't be because of it's front-end aggressive looks, lights or SAC market segment - it'll be because I will shortly be pressing the left stalk on my steering wheel down and moving swiftly from the outside lane of the autobahn alongside Stuttgart airport (unrestricted section).

Many journalists have noted that the X4 isn't for those of us who place practicality high on our list of priorities. The X3 and the tsunami of similarly shaped SUVs which maximise interior space is for these folk. But there is a group of buyers, albeit small, that are happy to compromise practicality for style (in their eyes) and performance. BMW's concept is that the X4 is for those folk and that, as Ninja has already said, the marginal developmental cost of creating an X3 derivative that just might sell 250,000 units like the really ugly X6 (excuse my taking liberties there) is worth a punt. And in 2016 here in the UK, every man & his dog has an SUV or pretend SUV now - those boys from Munich might have realised that some of us early adopters of SUVs back in the late 1990s / early 2000s could be looking to discover something fresh, different but not want to lose the 'commanding' road view and sense of substance in poor weather etc. Some of us have got older during the last 10-15yrs, have a bit more money to spend on our passion for cars and no longer need m2 cubic volume quite as much as we did when the kids were small and we were doing our personal Grand Design projects every weekend. Being a 'Born again Biker' looks a bit too scary for me, a performance SUV / SAC seems a tad safer!

As a premium product, it sits in a segment where buyers are slightly less preoccupied with cost and may well be swayed more by emotion. BMW has loaded the car with a whole stack of standard features which are extra options on an X3...... and then charged a premium of about £3k for doing so. The journalist tend to simply focus upon the £3k premium (you pay more for less) aspect without mentioning the pile of standard features packaged with the X4.

As a hard edged competitor to the Porsche Macan it just misses out, but only just when put head2head in an extensive video test by AutoCar. Again, the Porsche is often cited as being cheaper than the X4 but that's before an attempt is made to spec the Porsche to a minimal standard that one would expect of such a car - e.g. leather seats, decent lights and exterior paintwork etc. At this point the purchase price, with zero discount, of the Porsche explodes.

Anyway, my core point is that I celebrate any car manufacturer who chooses to give us more choice. For the Rodius I say thank you to SsangYong - to my eye a truly hideous car but the source of much banter and humour in our family and a true car spotters prize on boring motorway journeys along the A1M. I do draw the line at the Nissan Micra however - not only do these look dreadful but they are to me what is to Sebastian Vettel an F1 Safety Car - a mobile chicane that backs up the rest of us and has an adverse impact upon our blood pressure. That's why Volvo created the D5 Polestar to enable folk to spend only a tiny amount of time on the wrong side of the road trying to get past the Micra on the A7.

Have a lovely Tuesday folks.

Arianne

Enjoy SsangYong's finest...

[AngloScot]

I was just wondering if this was a Volvo Forum or a BMW appreciation forum. We have a BMW as well as the Volvo, it's a great car but not as good as the XC60.

[andymcp]

Great post Arianne, although I thought the devil's spawn mobile chicane award went to the Honda Jazz rather than the Nissan Micra?

[Arianne]

Originally Posted by AngloScot

I was just wondering if this was a Volvo Forum or a BMW appreciation forum. We have a BMW as well as the Volvo, it's a great car but not as good as the XC60.

Sorry, I got a bit carried away. It was a day off of work and the refit of our Study beckoned straight after breakfast (mini-Grand Design project for the over 50s). The post on the forum delayed my arrival for the routing of cabling through the stud partition wall. Now I know you'll understand

Anyway, apologies. I'll get my coat...... taxi for Mr A

[AngloScot]

No worries, I have been using this site iirc the same time as yourself and bought my car from the same place as you and around the same time. So far I haven't had the mis-fortune of the dreaded turtle ( felt for you when that happened) and still love my car. I won't be changing mine anytime soon but the afore mentioned BMW belonging to Mrs A will be replaced with a new 16Plate, either BMW X1, Audi X3 or maybe the new Tiguan as we don't need 2 XC60's in the family and she would prefer something slightly smaller. Just to add we are in the early stages of refurbishing our bathroom so are in a similar situation. By the way we often drive to Edinburgh and as we pass through the borders I always look out for a Red XC60 but haven't seen it yet. Looking forward to passing over Soutra next week, hope there's no snow Lol. Cheers.