Moving to an electric C40…

[Volvocano]

Originally Posted by Nippy

Yeah mine averages about 25mpg 😬

How do you manage that? I didn't even drop to 25mpg when I did a week's tour of Ireland with 6 people in the car and no plug in charging.

[Nippy]

Because almost all my miles are local. When I do motorways to France, Italy etc it’s about 38-39. To be fair I suspect the super/turbo charger combo polestar and a heavy right foot is also to blame 🤣

[Automatic Only]

Originally Posted by Philip Fisher

If I was travelling at 90-110 in the UK then my question is whether the range would last longer than my driving licence...?

Last year I saw an Italian registered Tesla on the Isle of Mull. I must admit I was very surprised that it had made it this far north. It must have stopped to charge at least what, maybe 8 times to get here?

I don't tend to go that fast in the UK and my licence (to date) has always been completely clean...
Incidentally I was listening to a couple of Tesla owners discussing their cars yesterday and both said they wouldn't be buying an EV next time round.

[Philip Fisher]

Originally Posted by Automatic Only

I don't tend to go that fast in the UK and my licence (to date) has always been completely clean...
Incidentally I was listening to a couple of Tesla owners discussing their cars yesterday and both said they wouldn't be buying an EV next time round.

I have been - touch wood - only done for speeding once, 23 years ago now. Which was a bit embarrassing as I was driving an ex West Yorks Police V70 T5 at the time and got done in West Yorks by a copper who seemed very interested to see his old company car again!

[Volvocano]

Originally Posted by Automatic Only

I don't tend to go that fast in the UK and my licence (to date) has always been completely clean...
Incidentally I was listening to a couple of Tesla owners discussing their cars yesterday and both said they wouldn't be buying an EV next time round.

A Tesla colleague of mine went back to ICE cars - he did a fair bit of business travel and got stranded several times forcing hotel stays etc. due to charing availability or lack thereof/time taken - he almost ended up divorced over it!

[Kev0607]

EV's certainly don't work for everyone. it depends on the EV you have and the type of driving you do (is it long journey's, short trips to the shops and so on). If its a Tesla, the range is pretty good all things considered, compared to the smaller/cheaper alternatives lower down the price spectrum like a Nissan Leaf or Renault Zoe. Not everyone can afford a Tesla.

A Leaf or Zoe works for people who just do short journeys... supermarkets, don't have a long commute and so on. For the person that needs that bit more range, Tesla (and others) are an option. You can go further in those for sure. EV's work for people who primarily do shorter journeys or mid distance, and those that live in places that have chargers available that actually work/can charge at home. Or, those that have another car for the longer trips. I see plenty of houses with one EV and another ICE car... Pretty common around here.

So someone that does say 100 miles a day in an EV that's capable of doing 200 or 300... its not so bad. Just plug it in when you get back (if you have the facility), or stop somewhere for a coffee break.

The problem with EV's is when the journey is longer than the battery will do. Then an ICE car is better, or a PHEV or self charging hybrid.

I don't think EV only and long journeys work, personally (longer than the range of the battery). All the same... it depends how far someone really needs to travel. If someone was doing mega miles each year/several hundred miles a day, they probably wouldn't even consider an EV... It simply wouldn't work. It depends on the usage for each person.

I often wondered how long someone spends charging an EV on a long trip. So say someone drove to France for a 3 week road trip from the UK. They drove all over the place whilst they were there. I know these newer cars can rapid charge to like 80% in 30 minutes or so, but those 30 minutes add up if you have to repeatedly do it every few hundred miles (if you're lucky to get that far).

Would people even bother doing that kind of trip with an EV, or has anyone on here actually been on a longer trip and experienced it first hand?

Another thing to consider though is I often see "EV's are cheap to run" or "they cost peanuts to run"... that "train" is going to come to a halt soon. Road tax is starting on EV's next year, so those that drove EV's paying nothing will have to pay £180 a year (I think) as of 2025 (and that'll go up year-on-year likely). Congestion charges are also being introduced for EV's, so no zooming around London for free anymore as of next year. There's going to be a charge like other vehicles had to pay. Then people forget that as the EV market grows, that means lost fuel duty because less will be filling their cars with petrol and diesel. The Government will lose mega money and it'll be clawed back one way or another... We just don't know how for sure.

My guesses are higher road tax for all vehicles (regardless of whether they're ICE or electric), increased prices for electric in general or much dearer night charging tariffs/dearer public charging (which is already expensive as it is). Remember, an EV is only currently cheap to run because people are charging them at home on night rates or at places of work for reduced prices. plus there's no road tax or congestion charges to pay. Two of those (the latter) are disappearing next year... The train is already coming to a halt. If those that currently charge at home on night tariffs had to pay public charger prices because not everyone can charge at home, it would be dearer to "fill" that car than a regular ICE vehicle that takes "fuel".

Its not going to last forever. For now maybe, but EV's will become more expensive. Eventually, I think they'll be as dear as your ordinary ICE car, minus the servicing. The Government aren't going to lose out... That's guaranteed. The association with EV and peanuts will disappear. Fact.

[Philip Fisher]

I believe the road fund licence for EVs will only be for new registrations, not existing vehicles.

Based on £1.40 per litre, 40mpg and 3 miles per kW I reckon the pivot point between an EV and an ICE vehicle is 48p per kW. At home charging will be 23p on a standard tariff from July or as low as 7p ish if you have an off peak tariff. Destination 11kwh charging tends to be around 40p. Fast charging and charging on the motorway tends to be just less than 80p.

Don't forget with a typical off peak tariff at home that the standard daytime cost goes up. So depending on your nighttime use it may or may not make sense for you.

[Kugaman1]

The RFL for EVs applies to all cars from April 25, regardless of when they were built/registered.

The only difference is that cars over £40k list will start to pay the total rip off unjustified “luxury car tax supplement” for cars registered after 1 April 25.

That tax was part of the reason I traded in my XC60. Totally unjustified.

Hopefully my new C40 will be reliable and I can keep it for several years before having to worry about that supplement. (First impressions, its a fantastic car)

With regards to electricity prices and charging at home….I disagree that prices will go up to charge them….I think its more likely that we will see many more road tolls introduced as there are on the continent - either that or a pay per mile system.

As mentioned, no matter what, as more EVs replace ICE cars, EVs will take the brunt of the shortfall in Government coffers. With a labour government imminent, anything could happen…..could be interesting times ahead…

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by Kugaman1

The RFL for EVs applies to all cars from April 25, regardless of when they were built/registered.

The only difference is that cars over £40k list will start to pay the total rip off unjustified “luxury car tax supplement” for cars registered after 1 April 25.

That tax was part of the reason I traded in my XC60. Totally unjustified.

Hopefully my new C40 will be reliable and I can keep it for several years before having to worry about that supplement. (First impressions, its a fantastic car)

With regards to electricity prices and charging at home….I disagree that prices will go up to charge them….I think its more likely that we will see many more road tolls introduced as there are on the continent - either that or a pay per mile system.

As mentioned, no matter what, as more EVs replace ICE cars, EVs will take the brunt of the shortfall in Government coffers. With a labour government imminent, anything could happen…..could be interesting times ahead…

Pay per mile has been discussed for a long time now. I see it could be good in ways. The less miles you do, the less you pay. The more miles you do, the more you pay. Let's face it, the cameras are already up. I think it would be fairly easy for them to have more use than just for emissions zones and bus lanes. The tech is already there...

Pay per mile is fair I suppose. Someone who has a large car with a big engine that doesn't do many miles is still paying the same price as the person that does thousands in the same car with the same engine. There's no "in between" now... you just pay x amount and drive as you please.

This is all speculative of course, nothing is confirmed. More tolls are possible, but I think pay-per-mile is the likely replacement for lost fuel duty when EV's become the norm, plus increased road tax for all vehicles. I don't think pay-per-mile will replace road tax and fuel duty... there's going to be something else, possibly still road tax. Or there won't be any road tax, but pay-per-mile will be expensive.

Currently, ICE vehicles are taxed on engine size, fuel type and emissions, plus the "premium tax". I see all that continuing for now, but getting higher and higher. Eventually, people will swap... its what they want. ICE cars aren't going anywhere anytime soon though.

EV's have zero emissions, so they can't charge based on that and there's no engine, so size won't come into it. Therefore, its likely road tax for EV's in future (beyond 2025/before pay-per-mile is introduced (if it is***) could be based on weight, plus the "premium fee" for cars over x value/registered at a certain date.

The Government will get the money back, that's for sure.

Originally Posted by Philip Fisher

I believe the road fund licence for EVs will only be for new registrations, not existing vehicles.

Based on £1.40 per litre, 40mpg and 3 miles per kW I reckon the pivot point between an EV and an ICE vehicle is 48p per kW. At home charging will be 23p on a standard tariff from July or as low as 7p ish if you have an off peak tariff. Destination 11kwh charging tends to be around 40p. Fast charging and charging on the motorway tends to be just less than 80p.

Don't forget with a typical off peak tariff at home that the standard daytime cost goes up. So depending on your nighttime use it may or may not make sense for you.

All EV's will pay road tax, even the older ones.

[Danny 1957]

I lived in Germany 79 to 82 and your road tax was paid as in fuel duty. It worked just fine for all.

Nobody evaded paying your road that way.