V70: Engine D4204T5 excessive oil burn

[morsing]

I'm confused,

The Indy Volvo garage I spoke to said you just replace the rings, not the pistons, but this video says the rings only fit a new style pistons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yJoHgwiwio

Regards,
Henrik Morsing

[Sotosound]

Originally Posted by morsing

I'm confused,

The Indy Volvo garage I spoke to said you just replace the rings, not the pistons, but this video says the rings only fit a new style pistons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yJoHgwiwio

Regards,
Henrik Morsing

If that's Horton Cars then their original fix was to replace the rings on the existing pistons. (In reality, however, in many respects they reconditioned the engine. They didn't just replace the rings.)

The replacement rings would be old-style rings, however, including oil control rings with very small drain holes that are prone to getting blocked and, to my mind, all that would do is to reset the clock for the engine, meaning that the problem might recur in a few years' time.

The better fix would be to replace both the pistons and the rings with the newer design items so as to permanently fix the issue for most cars. That would increase the cost, however.

To my mind, in many cases the repair cost makes the repair uneconomical as you'd be spending the value of the car to keep it on the road while adding no real value to it. In such a case it would be more cost-effective to sell the car and put both the proceeds from the sale and the would-be repair money towards buying a younger one without the problem.

[morsing]

Originally Posted by Sotosound

If that's Horton Cars then their original fix was to replace the rings on the existing pistons. (In reality, however, in many respects they reconditioned the engine. They didn't just replace the rings.)

The replacement rings would be old-style rings, however, including oil control rings with very small drain holes that are prone to getting blocked and, to my mind, all that would do is to reset the clock for the engine, meaning that the problem might recur in a few years' time.

The better fix would be to replace both the pistons and the rings with the newer design items so as to permanently fix the issue for most cars. That would increase the cost, however.

To my mind, in many cases the repair cost makes the repair uneconomical as you'd be spending the value of the car to keep it on the road while adding no real value to it. In such a case it would be more cost-effective to sell the car and put both the proceeds from the sale and the would-be repair money towards buying a younger one without the problem.

But in my opinion, getting a younger car never fixes anything, you start over having to fix issues, pay for rust-proofing as people never do that here, more complicated car with more things to go wrong.

Replacing this car for something similar but younger would set us back £12-15 000, that's more than the £1 000 in parts it would cost me to do this job.

[Sotosound]

Originally Posted by morsing

But in my opinion, getting a younger car never fixes anything, you start over having to fix issues, pay for rust-proofing as people never do that here, more complicated car with more things to go wrong.

Replacing this car for something similar but younger would set us back £12-15 000, that's more than the £1 000 in parts it would cost me to do this job.

Getting a younger example of the same model but with the new-design pistons and rings immediately fixes the problem that underpins this discussion, but if you're doing the work yourself, however, then that clearly alters the decision-making process.

If I were able to do such work myself then I would no doubt perform a repair.

[Geozyg]

Don't use thicker oil, it could make the piston ring issue worse.

[morsing]

Originally Posted by Sotosound

If that's Horton Cars then their original fix was to replace the rings on the existing pistons. (In reality, however, in many respects they reconditioned the engine. They didn't just replace the rings.)

The replacement rings would be old-style rings, however, including oil control rings with very small drain holes that are prone to getting blocked and, to my mind, all that would do is to reset the clock for the engine, meaning that the problem might recur in a few years' time.

The better fix would be to replace both the pistons and the rings with the newer design items so as to permanently fix the issue for most cars. That would increase the cost, however.

To my mind, in many cases the repair cost makes the repair uneconomical as you'd be spending the value of the car to keep it on the road while adding no real value to it. In such a case it would be more cost-effective to sell the car and put both the proceeds from the sale and the would-be repair money towards buying a younger one without the problem.

Car is going in next week. Have too much on my plate to do it myself, but we want to keep the car and no-way will we get a newer car in as good condition for the cost of this repair.

But, I have it from the horse' mouth that they fit old-style rings to the old pistons, hone the cylinders, replace bearings and send the head off for cleaning and skimming.

I have asked to have new-style pistons fitted, at an extra £1 200, call me crazy.

Car will be as new afterwards, good for another 200 000 miles, no chance would spending £10 000 on a newer car give you that.

[GrahamBrown1]

Originally Posted by morsing

Car is going in next week. Have too much on my plate to do it myself, but we want to keep the car and no-way will we get a newer car in as good condition for the cost of this repair.

But, I have it from the horse' mouth that they fit old-style rings to the old pistons, hone the cylinders, replace bearings and send the head off for cleaning and skimming.

I have asked to have new-style pistons fitted, at an extra £1 200, call me crazy.

Car will be as new afterwards, good for another 200 000 miles, no chance would spending £10 000 on a newer car give you that.

I can’t help but think why anyone would have old parts that were a problem put back into there newly built engine. Have they rebuilt a few of these before? Just out of interest as you won’t be the only one in this position. I think you do right getting the new bits fitted. One thing that did cross my mind would be how much a new or recon engine from Volvo would be? Some people in the new XC90 section of the forum have had bills of 10k plus for brand new engines fitted. I assume your repair is much less than this but still a lot of labour cost in building the engine but at a lower rate than the dealer i guess. Be interesting to see how they compare. Also agree, what else would you buy. Hopefully this repair will keep it going for sometime yet!

[morsing]

Originally Posted by GrahamBrown1

I can’t help but think why anyone would have old parts that were a problem put back into there newly built engine. Have they rebuilt a few of these before?

They said they'd done quite a few. I'm guessing on a 100 000+ mile car, their thinking is if it gets to 200 000+ no-one's going to hold on to it much longer anyway.

Originally Posted by GrahamBrown1

Just out of interest as you won’t be the only one in this position. I think you do right getting the new bits fitted. One thing that did cross my mind would be how much a new or recon engine from Volvo would be? Some people in the new XC90 section of the forum have had bills of 10k plus for brand new engines fitted. I assume your repair is much less than this but still a lot of labour cost in building the engine but at a lower rate than the dealer i guess.

Their quote for just rings was £4 200, pistons are £400 each, so that takes it up to £5 800.

That does include:

- Head sent off for skimming (Valves ground and guides checked?)
- New bearings (Crank as well?)
- General clean-up of everything.

Originally Posted by GrahamBrown1

Be interesting to see how they compare. Also agree, what else would you buy. Hopefully this repair will keep it going for sometime yet!

Exactly, I wouldn't get a newer car like this for 6k. This will give it another 200 000 miles.

[Sotosound]

Originally Posted by morsing

They said they'd done quite a few. I'm guessing on a 100 000+ mile car, their thinking is if it gets to 200 000+ no-one's going to hold on to it much longer anyway.



Their quote for just rings was £4 200, pistons are £400 each, so that takes it up to £5 800.

That does include:

- Head sent off for skimming (Valves ground and guides checked?)
- New bearings (Crank as well?)
- General clean-up of everything.



Exactly, I wouldn't get a newer car like this for 6k. This will give it another 200 000 miles.

Have they included VAT in the quote?

Also, what is their level of confidence that their repair will fix the problem in your car? Have they actually diagnosed the problem with high level of confidence, e.g. a visual confirmation?

(This was always a concern for me. I wouldn't want to spend lots of money without a proper diagnosis.)

[morsing]

Originally Posted by Sotosound

Have they included VAT in the quote?

Also, what is their level of confidence that their repair will fix the problem in your car? Have they actually diagnosed the problem with high level of confidence, e.g. a visual confirmation?

(This was always a concern for me. I wouldn't want to spend lots of money without a proper diagnosis.)

My numbers above include VAT.

They looked at it once for an oil leak and said it was the rings.

As the problem became worse, the car started jumping the first minute of running. We took it back there and they said the jumping was something blocking up because of the oil rings, which I now can't remember what is.

They took it in for an extensive double-investigation and came back saying it was definitely the rings. Their confidence level is very high.

It's had the check engine light on for a year now because the EGR keeps blocking up. Have cleaned it a few times, but it just comes back. It stink on start-up as well.

I think I'll take their word for it, they seem pretty decent. If that isn't the problem, it's on them really, isn't it.