The straw that broke the camels back

[GMcL]

In addition, you will also see manufacturers refusing to sell you a petrol or diesel if they are not on target for the % EV sales for the given year. If you do manage to order a new diesel or petrol you can expect the GBP15k fine per vehicle to be added on to the price, the manufacturer is not going to foot that bill.

A GBP27k entry level Golf then becomes a GBP42k car.

Maybe raise the question with anyone doorstep canvassing in the coming months.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by Carlosos

I’m all for the green agenda. We have to be cleaner and burning stuff is unnecessary. That being said it needs to be a measured response that encourages new products to toe the line.

Taxing older products with crazy road tax and ulez etc isn’t ok as it mainly penalises poorer who can’t afford new. Besides the bulk of the burden from manufacturing the car has already taken place and they will soon disappear as all older products/cars do.

They don’t care. ULEZ generates millions per year… Its a cash grab. There’s no point us having ULEZ schemes if other much more polluting countries are doing literally nothing. It has to be a collective effort, if anything. You can’t drive a non-complaint petrol or diesel into London without paying a fee of £12.50? What does the £12.50 do… make the emissions disappear? Its crazy.

Originally Posted by GMcL

In addition, you will also see manufacturers refusing to sell you a petrol or diesel if they are not on target for the % EV sales for the given year. If you do manage to order a new diesel or petrol you can expect the GBP15k fine per vehicle to be added on to the price, the manufacturer is not going to foot that bill.

A GBP27k entry level Golf then becomes a GBP42k car.

Maybe raise the question with anyone doorstep canvassing in the coming months.

I can’t see that happening, not for many years. The ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles doesn’t come into force until 2035. You’ll still be able to buy used after that date, just not new. That has been announced by the Government.
ICE vehicles aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.

I think a lot of manufacturer’s will go out of business by refusing to sell certain cars (if they do that in future). They can’t manufacture cars and not sell them, whether they have petrol or diesel engines (or EV). No business can survive doing that… sales keep these companies going.

There has to be a demand for electric for them to sell… there just isn’t right now and there won’t be for a long time (if at all). Electric doesn’t suit everyone, whereas ICE does and has done for many many years. If “fines” are added to the price, they definitely won’t sell them.

[GMcL]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

I can’t see that happening, not for many years. The ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles doesn’t come into force until 2035. You’ll still be able to buy used after that date, just not new. That has been announced by the Government.
ICE vehicles aren’t going anywhere anytime soon.

I think a lot of manufacturer’s will go out of business by refusing to sell certain cars (if they do that in future). They can’t manufacture cars and not sell them, whether they have petrol or diesel engines (or EV). No business can survive doing that… sales keep these companies going.

There has to be a demand for electric for them to sell… there just isn’t right now and there won’t be for a long time (if at all). Electric doesn’t suit everyone, whereas ICE does and has done for many many years. If “fines” are added to the price, they definitely won’t sell them.

Manufacturers will go out of business paying the fines, damned if they do damned if they don't. They will stop selling cars in Europe and divert them to markets with less stringent rules. This will dry up the used car market for such vehicles across Europe or make them prohibitively expensive, few cars, many buyers model. Charge what you like then watch the VED rocket for them.

YOU WILL BUY AN EV is the mantra.

[xco]

I'm sure things will change and soon in favour of the motorist.
We have been in the pressure cooker far too long just takin $h!te and I sense it is about to burst!!

[mr tickle]

I own 2 BEV's. Despite the continual negative press they are brilliant to drive and use as everyday daily drives, they are better in almost every way to ICE. Expensive to buy but cost peanuts to run (£4.20 to drive 250 miles)

I can see a split coming and it's a big problem: people who own their property, have a drive and a home charger and can take advantage of cheap electricity (EV tariffs of 7p/kw) and those who don't.
I think having a place to charge at home in the future will add a huge value to your home.
If you can charge at home an EV will work if you don't you can't.

The other issue we have is towing. I use the XC90 for towing my boat/caravan/trailer when I'm going to the tip/ need more than 5 seats.
I'm not sure when a BEV will be able to tow heavy loads. The range is severely affected by weight and currently most BEV's don't have type approval for fitting a tow bar.

I also agree we need to stop burning things as soon as possible but in a way that benefits us all without the need for racketeering and at a sensible speed not the current one.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by mr tickle

I own 2 BEV's. Despite the continual negative press they are brilliant to drive and use as everyday daily drives, they are better in almost every way to ICE. Expensive to buy but cost peanuts to run (£4.20 to drive 250 miles)

I can see a split coming and it's a big problem: people who own their property, have a drive and a home charger and can take advantage of cheap electricity (EV tariffs of 7p/kw) and those who don't.
I think having a place to charge at home in the future will add a huge value to your home.
If you can charge at home an EV will work if you don't you can't.

The other issue we have is towing. I use the XC90 for towing my boat/caravan/trailer when I'm going to the tip/ need more than 5 seats.
I'm not sure when a BEV will be able to tow heavy loads. The range is severely affected by weight and currently most BEV's don't have type approval for fitting a tow bar.

I also agree we need to stop burning things as soon as possible but in a way that benefits us all without the need for racketeering and at a sensible speed not the current one.

I think the bubble will burst on the whole “peanuts to run” scenario.

Once more EV’s come on the road, electric charging prices aren’t going to go down. It’ll be the opposite… they’ll go up.

The Government are going to lose millions from lost fuel duty, which normally comes from petrol and diesel at the pumps. That will be recovered one way or another.

[mr tickle]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

I think the bubble will burst on the whole “peanuts to run” scenario.

Once more EV’s come on the road, electric charging prices aren’t going to go down. It’ll be the opposite… they’ll go up.

The Government are going to lose millions from lost fuel duty, which normally comes from petrol and diesel at the pumps. That will be recovered one way or another.

Road pricing will be how they do it. A charge per mile.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by mr tickle

Road pricing will be how they do it. A charge per mile.

Plus road tax for vehicles that currently don’t pay. EV’s will pay road tax as of next year, which they haven’t had to do for 10 years plus.

There’s been rumour of pay per mile for a long time. I’m not too sure what I make of it. I guess if you drive less you pay less and there’s higher charges if you do more miles. Sounds simple, but depends what the charges are!

In a way, its fair I guess? The person who goes to the shops twice a week won’t be paying full whack like someone who does 50k a year. Although, I can see the privacy argument though. Many people would just rather pay x amount per year than be effectively “tracked” for their journeys. These ulez cameras in effect can be used for a pay per mile system with tweaks quite easily.

[TruckbusUK]

I dont really have a problem with the principle of pay per mile as long as its a replacement for the current fuel duty and VED road tax ....

Chances of that I'd guess are as likely as rocking horse sh1t being available in every garden centre ... but the government will pretend its all for the general good and continue to twist the screw even tighter.

Imagine if the same investment and effort as lavished on EV development had been spent on making petrol or diesel or alternatives clean ... so recouping the already spent/investment in the existing fleets/infrastructure at least until a proper solution (hydrogen?) is available.

Sorry I shall go and lie down in a darkened room for a while

[XJSDriver]

Originally Posted by TruckbusUK

Imagine if the same investment and effort as lavished on EV development had been spent on making petrol or diesel or alternatives clean ... so recouping the already spent/investment in the existing fleets/infrastructure at least until a proper solution (hydrogen?) is available.

In London just popped out for sandwich to see an electric taxi has broken down in middle of road and causing chaos

Hydrogen is already proven viable for JCB who have designed and built their own Hydrogen engines. We can use solar or wind generated electricity to generate hydrogen to power ICE engines and it may even be sensible to convert existing cars that people wish to keep to Hydrogen, to save on emissions to build more new cars. BMW built a few hydrogen powered cars in the 90s.

The government is not playing a fair game - I think we know this and no doubt there is influence from larger players in the game including car makers.