JJs Project Thread - 240 GL Estate

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Moomoo

It does look a bit of a Tart , don’t you think 😍😘

I'm saying nothing Andrew.

:-)

[Problemchild1976]

Originally Posted by Othen

I'm intrigued to see how you solve that one :-).

….

Good fortune, I am genuinely fascinated to see what is the solution for this puzzle.

Alan

Well firstly the wheels are made/designed for the car

Offset is ET6 and they are 18” ocean mk18

The tyres they are designed to use is 205 35 R18 but those are the tyres they came with from a non lowered volvo.

Fronts are close but I’ve had closer

I want the arch gap to be the bit that matches better as this looks like it’s collapsed a bit at the back

I may still need to change the tyres but let’s see

JJ

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Problemchild1976

Well firstly the wheels are made/designed for the car

Offset is ET6 and they are 18” ocean mk18

The tyres they are designed to use is 205 35 R18 but those are the tyres they came with from a non lowered volvo.

Fronts are close but I’ve had closer

I want the arch gap to be the bit that matches better as this looks like it’s collapsed a bit at the back

I may still need to change the tyres but let’s see

JJ

There isn't a need to be so defensive - I'm trying to help.

If the wheels are designed for a 240 then they should fit, but they don't - why not?

205/35R18 tyres would give a rolling diameter of 23.7", whereas with the 225/40R18 tyres it is 25.2", so the difference in radius is only 0.7", which still wouldn't give enough clearance for suspension travel. The 205 tyre would be 10mm narrower (inside and out) so that might work.

The offset is 6mm, so 14mm less than standard, I suppose that is to get enough clearance at the front between the inside of the tyre and the suspension strut. On the outside it will mean that the tyre sticks out 14mm+15mm = 29mm further than standard. I've just measured out 30mm on the RB and can see that would put the edge of the tyre under the wheel arch. If I measure up to the wheel arch from that imaginary point where a 225 tyre would be then there is 45mm of clearance. I reckon the RB has about 75mm of suspension movement at the back, but the wheel has 180mm of clearance up inside the wheel arch. Now, you have lowered the motor car by 40mm (near enough to 45mm for government work) at the rear, which explains why the wheel/tyre/suspension combination won't work at the mo.

Have you seen this set up (40mm lowered suspension, ET6 and 225/40R18 tyres) working on someone else's motor car, or has the manufacturer claimed it will work? If so then something (suspension) isn't quite right. On the other hand if not then the options would seem to be to raise the suspension (quite a bit I should think - you have zero clearance at the moment and need at least 75mm (in my estimation) of suspension movement, so to about 40mm higher than standard (that might make it look a bit too dragster?). fitting a bit smaller tyres might work, particularly if 10mm narrower bought it inside the wheel arch. You can't increase the offset of the wheels, so if you want to keep the Ocean wheels then those are the options.

From what you say I'm guessing you have actually tried steering the car on full lock and suspension travel, and there are no clearance problems at the front? If you haven't actually done that yet it might be a good idea to try full lock and bounce the suspension just to make sure it fits before spending too much money on fixes.

I recall us having a similar discussion when you were thinking of banding some steel wheels a few months ago; I think we discussed similar numbers then. There is a much more radical third option: flaring the wheel arches (Eeeeek! this is the Volvo 240 corner)!

Anyway, I'm sure you will solve this one, you have come too far with this project not to. I admit the motor car would not be my cup of tea (which is in no way significant), but the work you have done so far has been first class.

This is a really interesting thread,

Alan

PS. I've just looked up: Ocean MK18 Silver 8,5x18 5x108 ET6 HUB 65,1 on some supplier's website. For a Volvo 140/240/740/940 they come with 205/35R18 tyres and there is no mention of them fitting with lowered suspension. I found this photo of the wheels fitted to a 740 with 205/35 tyres on the dealer's website (credit to TH Pettersson AB):



... the tyres do look a bit stretched for 8.5J rims, but they do fit (just!). It may be that you have to fit the 205/35 tyres and revert to standard length springs (at least at the back) to make them work on your motor car JJ.

PPS. If it were me (and I know, it isn't), I try the free option first and revert to the standard springs at the back. You have just taken it all apart, so the bolts should come undone easily, probably only a morning's work. If the wheels don't rub then I'd put on the clear coat and call it a job - it might make the motor car look less awkward at the same time. If it still rubs you would have lost nothing before you lay out £400 on new 205/35 tyres. That is what I'd try - but then I'm a tightwad.

[Moomoo]

Originally Posted by Othen

I'm saying nothing Andrew.

:-)

Wise!

[foggyjames]

Something to bear in mind is that you will never get even arch gaps on a 1/200 series car (without it looking really stupid), as the rear arches sit lower at the back - have a look at your side-on photo, and note the difference in the gap between the top of the arch and the belt line. The rear will always look more 'tucked' at the back if the car is sitting level.

The only potential solution to this which I've seen is on the Vox 242, where front arches were fitted to the rear quarters, although in that case they were still fitted lower down the body, albeit the difference was made more limited by the front and rear arches at least then having the same profile. I think a better solution is just to embrace the look, though.

I think the different offset is a red herring - it will need to be different because the rim is so much wider than the factory-fitted options. The same thing applies to wheels with a lot of dish.

What you may run into here is simply that putting 18s on a 240 (and maintaining decent suspension travel, and making all fit and drive normally) isn't trivial - it's a 60s design, essentially, and the arches aren't huge, etc. You're slightly better off with a 7/900, but even they have significant limitations unless you start hacking at them - much above 225-wide rubber and fitment gets "interesting".

cheers

James

[classicswede]

Sill line is what you need to look at rather than arch gap.

The ET6 wheels are by far the most common option but in my opinion they do not fit. The ET16 option is a much better fit and allows you to fit sensible size tyres. For a 8.5 inch wide rim a 225 width tyre is as narrow as you should really go but due to wrong offset you get forced into a very narrow 205 tyre

[Othen]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

What you may run into here is simply that putting 18s on a 240 (and maintaining decent suspension travel, and making all fit and drive normally) isn't trivial - it's a 60s design, essentially, and the arches aren't huge, etc. You're slightly better off with a 7/900, but even they have significant limitations unless you start hacking at them - much above 225-wide rubber and fitment gets "interesting".

cheers

James

Originally Posted by classicswede

The ET6 wheels are by far the most common option but in my opinion they do not fit. The ET16 option is a much better fit and allows you to fit sensible size tyres. For a 8.5 inch wide rim a 225 width tyre is as narrow as you should really go but due to wrong offset you get forced into a very narrow 205 tyre

They were both interesting comments chaps - and rather corroborate my thoughts to JJ in the above. I remember having some misgivings about fitting an 8.5" wheel and 10" wide tyres when JJ was thinking of using some banded (16" I think) wheels some months ago. I have not tried fitting larger wheels, but just looking at the space in the arches of the RB (a 244) made me wonder whether anything much larger would fit.

Perhaps foggyjames is right and the only real solution to this problem (if JJ wants to fit 8.5Jx18 wheels and lower the motor car) will be to flare the wheel arches. I have read stories about Americans doing that on the Turbobricks website, but that avenue is more part of custom car culture in the USA. I don't know whether JJ wants to take his project that far.

I'm tending to agree with classicswede that 225 section tyres will be just too big to fit with a 6mm offset. Trying an ET16 wheel might be an expensive gamble because there isn't all that much clearance to the suspension strut at the front (I can just get a finger in that gap on the RB with 195/65 section tyres.). You are right in that a 205 section tyre is really too narrow for a 8.5J rim, but then I notice they were the only option offered by the (Swedish) vendor of the Ocean wheels I quoted in the above. I rather suspect that vendor has realised 205 width is the absolute maximum on RWD Volvos (without cutting into the body). I'm not in favour of stretching tyres - I don't think they are safe and the rims will get damaged very easily indeed - but JJ mentioned it previously (in the context of banding steel wheels) and doesn't mind it.

JJ seems a very tenacious chap, so I suspect he will find a solution that allows him to keep the 8.5Jx18 Ocean wheels he likes. I have a feeling that will involve both stretching 205 section tyres and jacking up the rear suspension (at least to the standard height); it will be genuinely fascinating to see what he comes up with.

Let's wish JJ good fortune, this is a really interesting thread that is breaking some new ground in our sleepy 200 series hollow.

:-)

Alan

PS. There is no shame in trying something new and realising it will not work - I did the same with the ZZ Top wheels I bought (very cheaply) to try on GAM (a 1963 Amazon). I realised they were wrong straight away and put my hand up (this is well documented in the GAM thread). Fortunately there is a good market for second hand alloy wheels and I was able to sell them on to a young chap for his V6 Lexus (for which they were perfect) - and at a profit! :-)

[230ina245]

Hi there,
A relatively easy and cheapish way to raise the rear of your car a little is to use a spacer between the "tophat" fitting at the top of the rear spring and the frame rail.
First decide how much you need to raise, then purchase a circle of aluminium from ebay the desired thickness and the same diameter as the top of the top hat.
A hole drilled in the center and a longer bolt and you're in business.
Tim

[Bob Meadows]

Yes:~
Done the same on my car some years back: the backs do seem to sit lower even when spring and associated items are all good.
I initially took the idea from the Polyurethane height adjusters that can be purchased for towing purposes- Stupid prices!
Aluminium billets, as already mentioned can be purchased cut to size or DIY.
Bob

[Problemchild1976]

Hey all - sorry didn’t get any notifications for this chat

Defo not defensive - was just pointing out some bits.

Swapped the 40mm drop springs for the 15mm ones and now I’m much happier with the look



Been for a drive round the block and the drivers side rear wheel rubs (obvs - it’s like 12mm off the arch)

The main reason for it only rubbing on the drivers side is I’ve not set up the adjustable panhard to bring the rear end back in line - to be done over the weekend

Ive chatted to a few people who run these wheels and have the car lowered and know it all works

So I’ll swap the tyres and sell the ones on there now and go for the recommended. Stretch is fun - my smart BRABUS has some quite drastic stretch





But I think 215 35 is what most run which obviously changes things a bit

Then if I need to I will trim the arch a bit

Can’t roll the arches because they are double skinned and spot welded

JJ