Any Advice, Part 2!

[Chris152]

Thanks for the reply, loki. How much is a crank shaft locking tool to buy? Not that I'm looking to spend any more than necessary but if he's going to need it every few years, could be worth getting one? That said, I've not seen the right one on line. And I have a Boa grip, will that serve to remove the oil filter?

I guess the coolant will get replaced if we remove the radiator. I was struck by another thread on here, which described brake fluid being contaminated and that's what got me thinking about things that appear ok but aren't - should that have been checked in a full service done in February?

Anyway, really appreciate the advice, and the offer to loan the locking tool is great.
Chris (and Arthur)

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Thanks for the reply, loki. How much is a crank shaft locking tool to buy? Not that I'm looking to spend any more than necessary but if he's going to need it every few years, could be worth getting one? That said, I've not seen the right one on line. And I have a Boa grip, will that serve to remove the oil filter?

I guess the coolant will get replaced if we remove the radiator. I was struck by another thread on here, which described brake fluid being contaminated and that's what got me thinking about things that appear ok but aren't - should that have been checked in a full service done in February?

Anyway, really appreciate the advice, and the offer to loan the locking tool is great.
Chris (and Arthur)

Chris,

You only need to change the belt every 5 years, so it would probably be best to take advantage of Loki's kind offer of a loan of the crank holding tool.

I think Loki meant to use the oil filter tool to compress the belt tensioner - I use a pair of plumber's pipe grips that work just fine, and a small screwdriver that is just the right size to lock back the spring. The tensioner doesn't move back very far, just enough to release the tension on the belt and allow it to be slid off.

Changing the cam belt is pretty simple business, just take your time and mark the pulleys as Loki says - the only really critical one is the ancillary shaft as the crank and camshaft have easily visible alignment marks. Get a cam belt with alignment marks for the cam and auxiliary shaft printed on it - that will make everything easier when you put it back together.

You don't really need to remove the radiator, I don't bother (but my car is an auto so I don't want to risk getting an ATF leak) - you only need to see the crank timing mark - which isn't all that difficult (and help yourself by marking it with some new tippex before you take the old belt off).

Changing the coolant is not a bad idea anyway, I ran the RB with water in the cooling system (for about 3 weeks) after I changed the head to make sure everything is sealed up properly - which is fine as long as the pressure cap is fitted (otherwise the water might well boil). If you are going to change the coolant then you might as well back-flush it according to the LS method, then re-fill with EG/water mix (I buy ready mixed EG/water - because it was cheaper and I'm a tightwad).

You can buy a brake fluid water contamination tester for about a fiver from eBay etc, one like this is fine:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Brake...gAAOSw7z9fIEHI

... they all work much the same so there is no point spending any more. It will tell you whether you need to change the brake fluid or not (I check all my cars and bikes every year - it is a really good investment). DOT 4 doesn't wear out as such with the tiny amount of movement in the brake lines, but it does absorb water and get contaminated. If yours has more than 2% water content it is worth changing: a litre of DOT4 is less than a tenner (it is all much the same, don't bother to get anything more expensive or you will be buying an expensive label) and you can do it yourself pretty easily. Get your son to help and you won't need any special tools - just a piece of aquarium pipe and an old jam jar (if you are going to do it alone get a vacuum pump for about a tenner - makes the job easy and tidy).

It is probably worth going through the service checks in the BofH yourself. There is no need to change things that are obviously okay (like belts, hoses etc) or you have tested out.

I think you said you were going to get new tyres, I think that is a good idea. I replaced the 4 odd make ones on the RB with the correct size own-brand ones from FI Autocentre - a good investment at £150/set I thought. Tyres are a pretty important safety thing, if they look a bit old I'd say change them. The same goes for brake pads, they are really cheap and easy to change, it just isn't worth taking a risk with your son's motor car for the sake of £20.

It is worth checking the engine and gearbox mounts - if they are the originals they probably won't be doing much mounting. They are really cheap (generic ones that fit dozens of other cars and vans are about £6 each) and not all that difficult to change (well, the passenger one is easy, the driver's one is really fiddly). That will probably make a lot of difference for next to no cost.

It is an older car, so you will almost certainly find a plethora of other things that aren't right - that is almost inevitable and part of the fun (in my humble opinion) of running a 30-40 year old motor car.

Good fortune,

Alan

[Chris152]

Thanks Alan, and apologies to loki for not reading what you wrote properly! I've ordered one of those oil filter tools from Amazon, where it was a little cheaper, hopefully good enough. And I ordered the brake fluid testing pen on ebay, Alan - great for the price - and we'll be looking at the engine/ gearbox mounts, brake pads etc to see.

Loki - I'll send a pm if that's the best way to communicate - I'd like to take you up on the offer of a loan on the locking device. And thanks again.

I found this video which, once you've got everything else removed, seems quite clear on fitting a new timing belt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eIFWUbSZTw
Actually, he uses a different method to take the pressure off the tensioner, but happy to go with the wrench if that's best.

A few questions:
1. Is it best to replace the seals even if they look to be working properly? I'm not looking for work, but is it one of those jobs you just do because you have the cover and belt off?

2. In the videos I've watched, they don't seem to go through the process of checking the alignment of the number one spark plug terminal on the distributor housing, as instructed in the Haynes manual. If the marks on the three cogs align with the marks on the engine block, have you already achieved TDC? Or are the videos just skipping that necessary step?

3. Is my engine interference cylinder head, or non-interference?! Just checking in case we get things wrong - different sites say different things, Haynes says the B230 is interference.

At the moment, in addition to tools, all I think we need to order is the timing belt and maybe some fluid for the radiator. Where is it best to buy the belt, and suggestions?

Thanks again
C

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Thanks Alan, and apologies to loki for not reading what you wrote properly! I've ordered one of those oil filter tools from Amazon, where it was a little cheaper, hopefully good enough. And I ordered the brake fluid testing pen on ebay, Alan - great for the price - and we'll be looking at the engine/ gearbox mounts, brake pads etc to see.

Loki - I'll send a pm if that's the best way to communicate - I'd like to take you up on the offer of a loan on the locking device. And thanks again.

I found this video which, once you've got everything else removed, seems quite clear on fitting a new timing belt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eIFWUbSZTw
Actually, he uses a different method to take the pressure off the tensioner, but happy to go with the wrench if that's best.

A few questions:
1. Is it best to replace the seals even if they look to be working properly? I'm not looking for work, but is it one of those jobs you just do because you have the cover and belt off?

2. In the videos I've watched, they don't seem to go through the process of checking the alignment of the number one spark plug terminal on the distributor housing, as instructed in the Haynes manual. If the marks on the three cogs align with the marks on the engine block, have you already achieved TDC? Or are the videos just skipping that necessary step?

3. Is my engine interference cylinder head, or non-interference?! Just checking in case we get things wrong - different sites say different things, Haynes says the B230 is interference.

At the moment, in addition to tools, all I think we need to order is the timing belt and maybe some fluid for the radiator. Where is it best to buy the belt, and suggestions?

Thanks again
C

The timing mark on the cam sprocket is at TBC, so if that lines up the rest should as well. Check the crank position anyway, just in case the last chap got it wrong.The auxiliary shaft mark (on a B21a) is hard to see, mark it before removing the old belt.

By seals you mean the cam and auxiliary shafts? If you like, change them, they are not expensive. If they aren't leaking I wouldn't worry too much though - if you do change them remember to crack the two sprocket bolts before you take the old belt off - otherwise you may not be able to get enough purchase (personally I wouldn't bother changing them unless they are leaking - you might create a leak that wasn't there previously :-)

Good fortune,

Alan

[Chris152]

Originally Posted by Othen

The timing mark on the cam sprocket is at TBC, so if that lines up the rest should as well. Check the crank position anyway, just in case the last chap got it wrong.The auxiliary shaft mark (on a B21a) is hard to see, mark it before removing the old belt.

By seals you mean the cam and auxiliary shafts? If you like, change them, they are not expensive. If they aren't leaking I wouldn't worry too much though - if you do change them remember to crack the two sprocket bolts before you take the old belt off - otherwise you may not be able to get enough purchase (personally I wouldn't bother changing them unless they are leaking - you might create a leak that wasn't there previously :-)

Good fortune,

Alan

Thanks Alan - TBC is a typo, meaning TDC, right?! Newbs here, I actually went looking! It's odd the manual says about needing to check alignment of the number one spark plug terminal on the distributor housing - maybe that's just in case marks on the sprockets or belt housing are missing? And we'll avoid the seals if they look ok, every chance we'll make things worse. :-)

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Chris152

Thanks Alan - TBC is a typo, meaning TDC, right?! Newbs here, I actually went looking! It's odd the manual says about needing to check alignment of the number one spark plug terminal on the distributor housing - maybe that's just in case marks on the sprockets or belt housing are missing? And we'll avoid the seals if they look ok, every chance we'll make things worse. :-)

TBC=TDC (my fat fingers).

If you use the camshaft mark then it has to be at TDC for #1; if you use the crank mark it could be for #1 or #4, so you have to check the rotor is at about 8 o'clock to tell the difference - einfach, nicht wahr?

:-)

Alan

[Chris152]

Thanks Alan, alles klar.

Anyone know the answer to no 3?
3. Is my engine interference cylinder head, or non-interference?! Just checking in case we get things wrong - different sites say different things, Haynes says the B230 is interference.

[loki_the_glt]

Originally Posted by Othen

Chris,

You only need to change the belt every 5 years, so it would probably be best to take advantage of Loki's kind offer of a loan of the crank holding tool.

I think Loki meant to use the oil filter tool to compress the belt tensioner - I use a pair of plumber's pipe grips that work just fine, and a small screwdriver that is just the right size to lock back the spring. The tensioner doesn't move back very far, just enough to release the tension on the belt and allow it to be slid off.

Changing the cam belt is pretty simple business, just take your time and mark the pulleys as Loki says - the only really critical one is the ancillary shaft as the crank and camshaft have easily visible alignment marks. Get a cam belt with alignment marks for the cam and auxiliary shaft printed on it - that will make everything easier when you put it back together.

You don't really need to remove the radiator, I don't bother (but my car is an auto so I don't want to risk getting an ATF leak) - you only need to see the crank timing mark - which isn't all that difficult (and help yourself by marking it with some new tippex before you take the old belt off).

Changing the coolant is not a bad idea anyway, I ran the RB with water in the cooling system (for about 3 weeks) after I changed the head to make sure everything is sealed up properly - which is fine as long as the pressure cap is fitted (otherwise the water might well boil). If you are going to change the coolant then you might as well back-flush it according to the LS method, then re-fill with EG/water mix (I buy ready mixed EG/water - because it was cheaper and I'm a tightwad).

You can buy a brake fluid water contamination tester for about a fiver from eBay etc, one like this is fine:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Brake...gAAOSw7z9fIEHI

... they all work much the same so there is no point spending any more. It will tell you whether you need to change the brake fluid or not (I check all my cars and bikes every year - it is a really good investment). DOT 4 doesn't wear out as such with the tiny amount of movement in the brake lines, but it does absorb water and get contaminated. If yours has more than 2% water content it is worth changing: a litre of DOT4 is less than a tenner (it is all much the same, don't bother to get anything more expensive or you will be buying an expensive label) and you can do it yourself pretty easily. Get your son to help and you won't need any special tools - just a piece of aquarium pipe and an old jam jar (if you are going to do it alone get a vacuum pump for about a tenner - makes the job easy and tidy).

It is probably worth going through the service checks in the BofH yourself. There is no need to change things that are obviously okay (like belts, hoses etc) or you have tested out.

I think you said you were going to get new tyres, I think that is a good idea. I replaced the 4 odd make ones on the RB with the correct size own-brand ones from FI Autocentre - a good investment at £150/set I thought. Tyres are a pretty important safety thing, if they look a bit old I'd say change them. The same goes for brake pads, they are really cheap and easy to change, it just isn't worth taking a risk with your son's motor car for the sake of £20.

It is worth checking the engine and gearbox mounts - if they are the originals they probably won't be doing much mounting. They are really cheap (generic ones that fit dozens of other cars and vans are about £6 each) and not all that difficult to change (well, the passenger one is easy, the driver's one is really fiddly). That will probably make a lot of difference for next to no cost.

It is an older car, so you will almost certainly find a plethora of other things that aren't right - that is almost inevitable and part of the fun (in my humble opinion) of running a 30-40 year old motor car.

Good fortune,

Alan

Good point about the hydraulic fluid from Othen. Engine mounts, especially on the exhaust side where it is exposed to both heat and oil, are another item to check.

The Machine Mart wrench is what I use to release the timing belt tensioner; it's inexpensive, it works and it's less cumbersome that a pipe wrench or similar device.

You might not need the Boa for the oil filter; it can be accessed from above but it's easier for the left-handed among us as only the thumb is exposed to the exhaust manifold and alternator for any length of time.

You will need one of the following sockets for the sump plug: 1", 25mm or 26mm. Mine are 25mm OEM and 26mm ex Partsforvolvo but many members swear blind that they are ALL 1" A/F. A decent breaker bar might be required if the oil hasn't been changed in a long time; on my first 240 I think the previous mechanic had been a farm labourer as I needed an 18" breaker bar to crack the sump plug!


If it's a very late car it will also use Torx fittings for some trim fittings.

Keep us posted on the project please.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by loki_the_glt

Good point about the hydraulic fluid from Othen. Engine mounts, especially on the exhaust side where it is exposed to both heat and oil, are another item to check.

The Machine Mart wrench is what I use to release the timing belt tensioner; it's inexpensive, it works and it's less cumbersome that a pipe wrench or similar device.

You might not need the Boa for the oil filter; it can be accessed from above but it's easier for the left-handed among us as only the thumb is exposed to the exhaust manifold and alternator for any length of time.

You will need one of the following sockets for the sump plug: 1", 25mm or 26mm. Mine are 25mm OEM and 26mm ex Partsforvolvo but many members swear blind that they are ALL 1" A/F. A decent breaker bar might be required if the oil hasn't been changed in a long time; on my first 240 I think the previous mechanic had been a farm labourer as I needed an 18" breaker bar to crack the sump plug!


If it's a very late car it will also use Torx fittings for some trim fittings.

Keep us posted on the project please.

Mine is a 1" sump plug, I'm pretty sure (well, I couldn't find a 25mm in my box and a 26mm was too sloppy). A 1" socket from my US toolbox was a snug fit - you are right though, people tend to do them up too tight (I needed a breaker bar also).

Alan

[Chris152]

Originally Posted by loki_the_glt

Good point about the hydraulic fluid from Othen. Engine mounts, especially on the exhaust side where it is exposed to both heat and oil, are another item to check.

The Machine Mart wrench is what I use to release the timing belt tensioner; it's inexpensive, it works and it's less cumbersome that a pipe wrench or similar device.

You might not need the Boa for the oil filter; it can be accessed from above but it's easier for the left-handed among us as only the thumb is exposed to the exhaust manifold and alternator for any length of time.

You will need one of the following sockets for the sump plug: 1", 25mm or 26mm. Mine are 25mm OEM and 26mm ex Partsforvolvo but many members swear blind that they are ALL 1" A/F. A decent breaker bar might be required if the oil hasn't been changed in a long time; on my first 240 I think the previous mechanic had been a farm labourer as I needed an 18" breaker bar to crack the sump plug!


If it's a very late car it will also use Torx fittings for some trim fittings.

Keep us posted on the project please.

I'm getting a breaker bar anyway - one of the threads I read recommended that for undoing the crank pulley, and the limited experience I have of working on old cars (going back 25+ years to my relative youth), they're useful for lots of things. I have a boa for changing the chuck on my wood lathe, nice to broaden its horizons.
And we'll definitely be doing updates, if only so you all can keep an eye on us - and I'm going to get the lad to keep a blog to document all the work he does, part of the learning process.
Thanks Loki.