Problem with LPG conversion from Classicswede, advice please - Page 7

classicswede · Jan 17th, 2014, 11:03

A couple of points Rob has missed off here

when the car came back the engine was off the dip stick and took over 3lts of oil to bring it back to the max mark. It had only covered a couple of hundred miles maximum on that oil.
The head is badly gummed up with thick carbon and a engine rebuild has been on the cards since day.
Compression is down to around 100psi on each cylinder (dry) on my tester so is already very low. My tester is not the best so could be out a little.

The first tank did after making adjustments did around 150 miles including a lot of stationary setup time. Something has to have changed for it to be using so much more fuel now. If it was just rich running then the engine would be chugging and kangarooing with the excessive fuel.

The offer is there to take the system off for a full refund of the conversion.

TomW · Jan 18th, 2014, 14:27

Classicswede is one of the few on here that gives sound advice regarding LPG systems. He is a wealth of knowledge and has imparted this to us all on here who have the usual problems with our Volvo Bi Fuels. I am sure very many are grateful for his contribution on here.
I am sick to death of reading such vindictive posts and suggest to the moderators on here that the relevant threads be deleted from our forum.

BananaKing · Jan 18th, 2014, 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomW

Classicswede is one of the few on here that gives sound advice regarding LPG systems. He is a wealth of knowledge and has imparted this to us all on here who have the usual problems with our Volvo Bi Fuels. I am sure very many are grateful for his contribution on here.
I am sick to death of reading such vindictive posts and suggest to the moderators on here that the relevant threads be deleted from our forum.

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=159399

classicswede · Jan 18th, 2014, 20:57

I had hoped Rob could have come back to this thread and been able to report back on this thread and say all sorted, however that is not the case and Rob is now having fuel consumption issues.

Background

Rob first came to me to fix some major oil leaks and broken engine mounts. This was all sorted but the engine had been severely neglected and had very heavy carbon build up in the head. This kind of build up is known to cause the cam to seize by blocking to cam oil ways in the head.
I had to replace the front springs and shocks as the shocks had burst and the springs had been clamped together with bolts.
The wheels are of the wrong offset, not enough thread engagement on the nuts due to spacers and one wheel nut missing.
I discussed the engine issues with Rob and the plan was to rebuild the engine in time. Rob was also keen to reduce his running costs by converting to LPG. I also explained the dangers of the wheels and missing wheel nut.

LPG System

The system consists of 60ltr vertical toroidal tank, OMVL R90e vapouriser, AEB switch (supplier to OMVL) K jet mixer and simple relay fuel pump cut. No this is not some lashed together higgle piggle of any old bits. The components are the same as many of the other 240's and 740's that I have converted including other forum member who have had no issues at all. Google information on the omvl R90e and you will find it is the most common unit and regarded as the very best available.

Backfire,

to help Rob after the backfire I sent him all free of charge a replacement fuel injection bellows, cone air filter (that never arrived!) and air metering plate.

Rob was able to bring the car back over Christmas for me to look and fix the running issues.
There were a number of air leaks on the intake system, the injectors were leaking air even with the new seals on them and had to be sealed with RTV sealer. The idle control pipes have gone hard and were leaking on the ends, The idle control valve was spinning where it had come apart and had to be replaced with a manual flow valve.
Compression test showed cylinder compressions to be low but fairly even.
Petrol fuel mixture had to be drastically leaned off but struggled to idle on petrol and misfires.
LPG idle mixture had to be leaned off a lot and the peak flow valves leaned down to give correct mixture. Bear in mind that the air leaks have been cured and the mixture will have been adjusted before to compensate for them. The engine performed as you would expect with no lack in power and the idle was very smooth once warm (no idle control valve for fast idle when cold).
LPG level gauge adjusted, all lpg connections leak tested.
I also fitted a blow off valve in the manifold as the idle pipes are now tightly fixed and will not allow any pressure release in a backfire.
I also replaced the missing fan control knob as I had one about.

I discussed with Rob the petrol running issues and the plan was when I can find one is to replace the engine with one in good condition rather than rebuilding what is there to keep costs down.
Rob was also given strict instructions not to run out of LPG again and fill as soon as he arrived in Ireland to make sure he did not run out on the way home. I did not know for sure how many miles had been done on the tank and it has also done a lot of running adjusting mixture etc.

The fuel consumption should be around 200 miles on 45ltr of LPG but Rob is reporting only 100 miles. To consume that much extra fuel the engine should be running rough and jurking around. The extra consumption can not be put down to fuel control alone so something else must be causing it. 150 miles on a tank maybe it is just running very rich now but even that is a stretch. I'm sure both Rob and myself are happy to hear and sensible suggestions on what his issue might be.

BananaKing · Jan 18th, 2014, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicswede

The wheels are of the wrong offset, not enough thread engagement on the nuts due to spacers and one wheel nut missing.
LPG System

The system consists of 60ltr vertical toroidal tank, OMVL R90e vapouriser, AEB switch (supplier to OMVL) K jet mixer and simple relay fuel pump cut. No this is not some lashed together higgle piggle of any old bits. The components are the same as many of the other 240's and 740's that I have converted including other forum member who have had no issues at all. Google information on the omvl R90e and you will find it is the most common unit and regarded as the very best available.

I also replaced the missing fan control knob as I had one about.

The fuel consumption should be around 200 miles on 45ltr of LPG but Rob is reporting only 100 miles. Rob and myself are happy to hear and sensible suggestions on what his issue might be.

Just a couple of things here - you say above that the tank is 60 ltrs? I thought it was smaller? (It fills up at 45 litres..) ?

I got 240 miles on the first tank of LPG after the conversion. That's now at 100.

I don't think the missing wheel nut and heater knob is relevant to the topic, but fair enough.

classicswede · Jan 18th, 2014, 21:33

Heater knob and wheel nut are not relevant to the topic but I have tried to include everything.

Tank sizes are quoted in water capacity not LPG fill.

Please don't take anything as a go at you at all, I just want to solve the issue that you are having

strbryan · Jan 18th, 2014, 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicswede

Heater knob and wheel nut are not relevant to the topic but I have tried to include everything.

Tank sizes are quoted in water capacity not LPG fill.

Please don't take anything as a go at you at all, I just want to solve the issue that you are having

More cheap shots at the complaining costumer as usual Dai and seeing as the "background" has nothing to do with the running issues why mention them..

Tank sizes are quoted in liquid and not water as is the "L" in Liquefied petroleum gas..

classicswede · Jan 18th, 2014, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by strbryan

More cheap shots at the complaining costumer as usual Dai and seeing as the "background" has nothing to do with the running issues why mention them..

Tank sizes are quoted in liquid and not water as is the "L" in Liquefied petroleum gas..

It is not a running issue but very heavy fuel consumption problem.

Tony read up about LPG tank capacity - use google and you will get the answer.

strbryan · Jan 18th, 2014, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicswede

It is not a running issue but very heavy fuel consumption problem.

Tony read up about LPG tank capacity - use google and you will get the answer.

Dai I have no need to read up on LPG mate BUT I will give you a little infomation on my background..

I am a commercial plumber of 10 years, I was a registered CORGI gas installer of 10 years I also served 15 years as an Army Royal Engineer where I qualified as a commercial Diver..

In short, I know what a liquid is..

classicswede · Jan 18th, 2014, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by strbryan

Dai I have no need to read up on LPG mate ..

So why do you not know at what percentage a automotive LPG tank cuts off at along with a load of other wrong assumptions you have come up with.

Jan 17th, 2014, 11:03	#61
classicswede Trader Volvo in my veins Last Online: Today 00:32 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Anglesey	A couple of points Rob has missed off here when the car came back the engine was off the dip stick and took over 3lts of oil to bring it back to the max mark. It had only covered a couple of hundred miles maximum on that oil. The head is badly gummed up with thick carbon and a engine rebuild has been on the cards since day. Compression is down to around 100psi on each cylinder (dry) on my tester so is already very low. My tester is not the best so could be out a little. The first tank did after making adjustments did around 150 miles including a lot of stationary setup time. Something has to have changed for it to be using so much more fuel now. If it was just rich running then the engine would be chugging and kangarooing with the excessive fuel. The offer is there to take the system off for a full refund of the conversion. __________________ http://www.classicswede.org www.classicswede.co.uk

Jan 18th, 2014, 20:57	#64
classicswede Trader Volvo in my veins Last Online: Today 00:32 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Anglesey	I had hoped Rob could have come back to this thread and been able to report back on this thread and say all sorted, however that is not the case and Rob is now having fuel consumption issues. Background Rob first came to me to fix some major oil leaks and broken engine mounts. This was all sorted but the engine had been severely neglected and had very heavy carbon build up in the head. This kind of build up is known to cause the cam to seize by blocking to cam oil ways in the head. I had to replace the front springs and shocks as the shocks had burst and the springs had been clamped together with bolts. The wheels are of the wrong offset, not enough thread engagement on the nuts due to spacers and one wheel nut missing. I discussed the engine issues with Rob and the plan was to rebuild the engine in time. Rob was also keen to reduce his running costs by converting to LPG. I also explained the dangers of the wheels and missing wheel nut. LPG System The system consists of 60ltr vertical toroidal tank, OMVL R90e vapouriser, AEB switch (supplier to OMVL) K jet mixer and simple relay fuel pump cut. No this is not some lashed together higgle piggle of any old bits. The components are the same as many of the other 240's and 740's that I have converted including other forum member who have had no issues at all. Google information on the omvl R90e and you will find it is the most common unit and regarded as the very best available. Backfire, to help Rob after the backfire I sent him all free of charge a replacement fuel injection bellows, cone air filter (that never arrived!) and air metering plate. Rob was able to bring the car back over Christmas for me to look and fix the running issues. There were a number of air leaks on the intake system, the injectors were leaking air even with the new seals on them and had to be sealed with RTV sealer. The idle control pipes have gone hard and were leaking on the ends, The idle control valve was spinning where it had come apart and had to be replaced with a manual flow valve. Compression test showed cylinder compressions to be low but fairly even. Petrol fuel mixture had to be drastically leaned off but struggled to idle on petrol and misfires. LPG idle mixture had to be leaned off a lot and the peak flow valves leaned down to give correct mixture. Bear in mind that the air leaks have been cured and the mixture will have been adjusted before to compensate for them. The engine performed as you would expect with no lack in power and the idle was very smooth once warm (no idle control valve for fast idle when cold). LPG level gauge adjusted, all lpg connections leak tested. I also fitted a blow off valve in the manifold as the idle pipes are now tightly fixed and will not allow any pressure release in a backfire. I also replaced the missing fan control knob as I had one about. I discussed with Rob the petrol running issues and the plan was when I can find one is to replace the engine with one in good condition rather than rebuilding what is there to keep costs down. Rob was also given strict instructions not to run out of LPG again and fill as soon as he arrived in Ireland to make sure he did not run out on the way home. I did not know for sure how many miles had been done on the tank and it has also done a lot of running adjusting mixture etc. The fuel consumption should be around 200 miles on 45ltr of LPG but Rob is reporting only 100 miles. To consume that much extra fuel the engine should be running rough and jurking around. The extra consumption can not be put down to fuel control alone so something else must be causing it. 150 miles on a tank maybe it is just running very rich now but even that is a stretch. I'm sure both Rob and myself are happy to hear and sensible suggestions on what his issue might be. __________________ http://www.classicswede.org www.classicswede.co.uk

Jan 18th, 2014, 21:33	#66
classicswede Trader Volvo in my veins Last Online: Today 00:32 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Anglesey	Heater knob and wheel nut are not relevant to the topic but I have tried to include everything. Tank sizes are quoted in water capacity not LPG fill. Please don't take anything as a go at you at all, I just want to solve the issue that you are having __________________ http://www.classicswede.org www.classicswede.co.uk

Jan 18th, 2014, 14:27	#62
TomW Senior Member Last Online: Jun 4th, 2024 19:32 Join Date: Jan 1970 Location: ipswich	Classicswede is one of the few on here that gives sound advice regarding LPG systems. He is a wealth of knowledge and has imparted this to us all on here who have the usual problems with our Volvo Bi Fuels. I am sure very many are grateful for his contribution on here. I am sick to death of reading such vindictive posts and suggest to the moderators on here that the relevant threads be deleted from our forum.

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