940 no start - Page 3

Oilydad · Oct 18th, 2011, 10:47

The starter is quite a complex bit of kit. Inside the casing is the armature, and the field coils (windings) within which the armature spins and on which the brushes run on the end (the comm, or commutator) To 'fire' the starter, as many have correctly said, the solenoid and these components needs to be in A1 condition.

But if the field coils have broken down, or the armature has a defective segment, you'll continue to have problems.

Take it from an old fella who used to re-build engines and starters/alternators for a living.

Get a replacement, completely overhauled starter. There's nothing more demoralising than spending hours removing an old starter, and putting a starter from a breakers on the car just to find that that one's knackered too!

Volvo's don't like Supermarkets!! I had 2 complete breakdowns in them this summer.

940lpt2300 · Oct 18th, 2011, 13:37

Thanks for the help. I'd probably have preferred this to happen in a supermarket not the M74! The cut out happened when i was driving tho - does this not rule out the starter and point to something more fuelling related...?

I have a started in my cupboard i bought from previous but didn't change over as the relay apparently sorted the issue.

I don't think it's the breather, i was changing the O ring on the trap (the black box below the intake) at the weekend and it's clean as are the hoses. Catch can is pretty clean too. I will check the oil cap tho and listen for hiss. No sign of leaking rocker cover or anything either.

Cant help but feel dampness and something astray in the ignition/fuelling was causing it. I have no idea when the distributor, arm, leads were changed. The plugs have about 30k on them.

kevvydude · Oct 18th, 2011, 17:51

no m8 not the oil filler, the petrol cap, if you hear a hiss then you have a fuel tank breather problem

940lpt2300 · Oct 18th, 2011, 20:20

Gotcha. Will check soon as I can.

How easy is the fuel breather to clean/replace?

940lpt2300 · Dec 11th, 2011, 20:02

The latest on this saga is that it seems to only cut out in heavy rain. I had the fuel filter replaced and new injectors, starter seems fine and has new relay. Cut out the time mentioned before and has done it once since then two weeks ago. It feels like mis-fire and then will either day or keep going.

Water getting into the cap?

Clan · Dec 11th, 2011, 20:49

Possibly but it was never a problem when the cars were current .
Firstly the washer jet T valve could leak water over the cap ,
secondly oil can leak from the distributor or cam cover but rarely got inside the cap,
Thirdly have you got a genuine volvo cap?
The non-genuine ones are not laquered inside , yours should have a high gloss finish inside the cap to match the outside which greatly reduces or eliminates misfires when wet . This is an extra which volvo demanded from Bosch ..( Hence because its bosch any bosch will do is wrong ) Bosch did make unlaquered caps for other applications .

940lpt2300 · Dec 16th, 2011, 19:27

I don't think the caps ever been changed. I intend to get it replaced alongside rotor arm and plug leads during the holiday. Hasn't cut out on me since last time in the rain.

Will check the other points. Could the rear cam seal potentially leak into the cap? I've heard it's not an easy job to change and i know the front cam seal is on it's way out judging by the grime above the water pump. I've since replaced the breather box, added a catch can and a new rocker cover gasket which has stopped previous leaks.

940lpt2300 · Feb 7th, 2012, 14:57

So. Sorry for being a pain in asking yet more questions but...i was out on Saturday and it starts raining. After a short while the car begins to drop revs and misfire. I think this is water getting to the cap due to the weather seal being worn/fatigued. Water running into the cap issue is referred to on the FAQ.

As i was some distance from home i put my foot down, full throttle, and "chugged" home at 30-50mph on i believe 2 cylinders at about 12psi running through the engine (due to full throttle and if not would be stranded). Kinda do or die scenario. Got home and it cut out as i reversed into a space. Nice timing.

Went to look at the car Sunday. Won't start. I assume water still in cap. As it sounds like it wants to. Check all the leads etc, give it some throttle and eventually starts up, sounds healthy, all good.

Only problem now being every time it goes into boost (anything above 1psi into it) it cuts out, like fuel cut/limp mode etc. Drives fine under vac, doesn't want anything to do with boost.

Could my previous 'do or die' moves to get home on the Saturday have wrecked the AMM? It usually wouldn't see >10psi blowing through it for such prolonged distance. I drove about 5 miles like this...in third.

I've put it off the road for now but thinking i need to get round to the cap, plug & wires etc. The new fuel cut issue has me concerned tho. AMM possibly?

The car is only worth anything to me so i don't want to sell it as i think the fix is relatively cheap but wondering what you experts might think....

Steve940estate · Feb 7th, 2012, 20:40

If you have a problem with the cap the lack of go under boost might just be a lack of a decent spark.
I think that some earlier 940s had problems with water getting into or onto the distrubutor cap and it was fixed by fitting a different style bonnet seal .

940lpt2300 · Feb 8th, 2012, 12:45

The hesitation feels more like the car being forced to cut (as if the ECU says NO!) as opposed to just not having enough spark (any positive pressure whatsoever forces it to cut right out until it's in vac again). It's 1997 model and the cut out only happens when it's raining therefore i am assuming the main issue is a leak onto the cap. The recent cut out in boost thing only happened after Saturdays adventure, i'm going to replace the AMM anyway.

Looks like i'll be spending some money...

Oct 18th, 2011, 10:47	#21
Oilydad Premier Member Last Online: Mar 21st, 2016 21:21 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Exeter Devon	The starter is quite a complex bit of kit. Inside the casing is the armature, and the field coils (windings) within which the armature spins and on which the brushes run on the end (the comm, or commutator) To 'fire' the starter, as many have correctly said, the solenoid and these components needs to be in A1 condition. But if the field coils have broken down, or the armature has a defective segment, you'll continue to have problems. Take it from an old fella who used to re-build engines and starters/alternators for a living. Get a replacement, completely overhauled starter. There's nothing more demoralising than spending hours removing an old starter, and putting a starter from a breakers on the car just to find that that one's knackered too! Volvo's don't like Supermarkets!! I had 2 complete breakdowns in them this summer. __________________ Are We Nearly There Yet! No longer a VOLVO owner, not by choice, but 'cause they don't make proper Volvos any more!

Oct 18th, 2011, 20:20	#24
940lpt2300 Junior Member Last Online: Jul 21st, 2012 12:18 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: glasgow	Gotcha. Will check soon as I can. How easy is the fuel breather to clean/replace? Last edited by 940lpt2300; Oct 18th, 2011 at 20:33.

Dec 11th, 2011, 20:49	#26
Clan Experienced Member Last Online: Today 15:57 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: L/H side	Possibly but it was never a problem when the cars were current . Firstly the washer jet T valve could leak water over the cap , secondly oil can leak from the distributor or cam cover but rarely got inside the cap, Thirdly have you got a genuine volvo cap? The non-genuine ones are not laquered inside , yours should have a high gloss finish inside the cap to match the outside which greatly reduces or eliminates misfires when wet . This is an extra which volvo demanded from Bosch ..( Hence because its bosch any bosch will do is wrong ) Bosch did make unlaquered caps for other applications . __________________ My comments are only based on my opinions and vast experience .

Oct 18th, 2011, 13:37	#22
940lpt2300 Junior Member Last Online: Jul 21st, 2012 12:18 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: glasgow	Thanks for the help. I'd probably have preferred this to happen in a supermarket not the M74! The cut out happened when i was driving tho - does this not rule out the starter and point to something more fuelling related...? I have a started in my cupboard i bought from previous but didn't change over as the relay apparently sorted the issue. I don't think it's the breather, i was changing the O ring on the trap (the black box below the intake) at the weekend and it's clean as are the hoses. Catch can is pretty clean too. I will check the oil cap tho and listen for hiss. No sign of leaking rocker cover or anything either. Cant help but feel dampness and something astray in the ignition/fuelling was causing it. I have no idea when the distributor, arm, leads were changed. The plugs have about 30k on them.

Oct 18th, 2011, 17:51	#23
kevvydude Premier Member Last Online: Nov 9th, 2017 22:33 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Aldershot Hampshie	no m8 not the oil filler, the petrol cap, if you hear a hiss then you have a fuel tank breather problem

Dec 11th, 2011, 20:02	#25
940lpt2300 Junior Member Last Online: Jul 21st, 2012 12:18 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: glasgow	The latest on this saga is that it seems to only cut out in heavy rain. I had the fuel filter replaced and new injectors, starter seems fine and has new relay. Cut out the time mentioned before and has done it once since then two weeks ago. It feels like mis-fire and then will either day or keep going. Water getting into the cap?

Dec 16th, 2011, 19:27	#27
940lpt2300 Junior Member Last Online: Jul 21st, 2012 12:18 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: glasgow	I don't think the caps ever been changed. I intend to get it replaced alongside rotor arm and plug leads during the holiday. Hasn't cut out on me since last time in the rain. Will check the other points. Could the rear cam seal potentially leak into the cap? I've heard it's not an easy job to change and i know the front cam seal is on it's way out judging by the grime above the water pump. I've since replaced the breather box, added a catch can and a new rocker cover gasket which has stopped previous leaks.

Feb 7th, 2012, 14:57	#28
940lpt2300 Junior Member Last Online: Jul 21st, 2012 12:18 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: glasgow	So. Sorry for being a pain in asking yet more questions but...i was out on Saturday and it starts raining. After a short while the car begins to drop revs and misfire. I think this is water getting to the cap due to the weather seal being worn/fatigued. Water running into the cap issue is referred to on the FAQ. As i was some distance from home i put my foot down, full throttle, and "chugged" home at 30-50mph on i believe 2 cylinders at about 12psi running through the engine (due to full throttle and if not would be stranded). Kinda do or die scenario. Got home and it cut out as i reversed into a space. Nice timing. Went to look at the car Sunday. Won't start. I assume water still in cap. As it sounds like it wants to. Check all the leads etc, give it some throttle and eventually starts up, sounds healthy, all good. Only problem now being every time it goes into boost (anything above 1psi into it) it cuts out, like fuel cut/limp mode etc. Drives fine under vac, doesn't want anything to do with boost. Could my previous 'do or die' moves to get home on the Saturday have wrecked the AMM? It usually wouldn't see >10psi blowing through it for such prolonged distance. I drove about 5 miles like this...in third. I've put it off the road for now but thinking i need to get round to the cap, plug & wires etc. The new fuel cut issue has me concerned tho. AMM possibly? The car is only worth anything to me so i don't want to sell it as i think the fix is relatively cheap but wondering what you experts might think....

Feb 7th, 2012, 20:40	#29
Steve940estate Steam Driven PC Owner. Last Online: Mar 4th, 2024 23:50 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Not sure.	If you have a problem with the cap the lack of go under boost might just be a lack of a decent spark. I think that some earlier 940s had problems with water getting into or onto the distrubutor cap and it was fixed by fitting a different style bonnet seal .

Feb 8th, 2012, 12:45	#30
940lpt2300 Junior Member Last Online: Jul 21st, 2012 12:18 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: glasgow	The hesitation feels more like the car being forced to cut (as if the ECU says NO!) as opposed to just not having enough spark (any positive pressure whatsoever forces it to cut right out until it's in vac again). It's 1997 model and the cut out only happens when it's raining therefore i am assuming the main issue is a leak onto the cap. The recent cut out in boost thing only happened after Saturdays adventure, i'm going to replace the AMM anyway. Looks like i'll be spending some money...

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