V70 bifuel problems

[classicswede]

Originally Posted by MrP

can you give me a few more details please.

how much are we talking about to do this. £1000 all included
what system would you be using - OMVL one of the worlds highest rated brands
how long to fit it - 2-3 days
what warranty is offered - 24 months warranty
would this be running off its own etc (and if so, would you be matching the 140bhp it currently has, or could you set it up to match the 170 of petrol motors) the ecu intergrates into the petrol system rather than the tacked on system volvo used. Power will be the same as what it is running on petrol..
is it going to be throwing any error codes that i'm going to have to deal with
the idea of teh modern injection systems is they intergrate with teh petrol ecu and allow the petrol ecu to adjust LPG fueling resulting in far less engine check light issues. There is no reason why the check light sould come on unless something has failed on either the petrol or LPG system.

i am interested in this, however the way the system totally integrates is a plus point, i'm worried that putting on a 3rd party front end is just going to make it a 2.4 with an LPG conversion when i come to sell it rather than a full bi-fuel (ie i lose the USP of having it all "volvo" rather than tacked on)

I dont know how the replacment system will affect the sales price of the car. I've not personaly seen any real difference in prices between a bi fuel and a converted car. The only thing from a buyers point of view if they have researched teh bi fuel the will be aware that the system is unrealiable and problematic.
The fuel gauge should continue to work as is its just a case of tapping into teh wiring so that side of things should not change. The switch will have to be changed but it looks fine with the volvo switches imo.

[humphrey999]

>>however fixing the misfiring would still leave me with the underlying problems of it leaning out under acceleration and cutting out on long motorway runs

Yes, I've had a number of intermittent problems which, with use, have sorted themselves out - I don't know if telling you this is going help or whether it's just self-indulgent but you never know - something may ring a bell.

I had an intermittent misfire at about 2500-3000rpm which the garage said was throwing up a coil pack fault code, so I had it changed. This resolved the fault light but the misfire remained. I tried the injector fluid distributor clean out trick but that didn't make any difference.

I took it back to the garage (Charlwood Volvo, who also used to do lpg conversions) and they cleaned out the throttle body and totally resolved the misfire but inexplicably the engine started to stop running on gas during driving - it would switch to petrol. If I stopped and turned the ignition off and then back on the issue disappeared. This problem conincided with the car stalling on gas and reverting to petrol on the run over which I assumed was linked to the driving switchover. I almost had the regulator changed because I assumed that this was the idling mixture that was at fault. In the end I did nothing but carried on muddling through and the system seemed to clear itself. Looking back all the syptoms could be linked to a bad oily tank of gas that had to work its way the system or get cleaned out. I wonder if the fact I do a reasonably high mileage (24000mpa) in 100 mile a day roundtrips to work may have something to do with it? Perhaps I am lucky with the local supply of gas? Anyway, not many solution suggestions here but if any of the symptoms are the same I might be able to remember some additional details if I put my mind to it!

[MrP]

Originally Posted by humphrey999

>>however fixing the misfiring would still leave me with the underlying problems of it leaning out under acceleration and cutting out on long motorway runs

Yes, I've had a number of intermittent problems which, with use, have sorted themselves out - I don't know if telling you this is going help or whether it's just self-indulgent but you never know - something may ring a bell.

I had an intermittent misfire at about 2500-3000rpm which the garage said was throwing up a coil pack fault code, so I had it changed. This resolved the fault light but the misfire remained. I tried the injector fluid distributor clean out trick but that didn't make any difference.

i get a misfire under 2500rpm, and it clears after that, however changing all the coil packs and spark plugs hasnt changed it, leading me to think i have a problem with the ETM or something, if its the ETM i'm annoyed as its been changed once.

Originally Posted by humphrey999

I took it back to the garage (Charlwood Volvo, who also used to do lpg conversions) and they cleaned out the throttle body and totally resolved the misfire but inexplicably the engine started to stop running on gas during driving - it would switch to petrol. If I stopped and turned the ignition off and then back on the issue disappeared. This problem conincided with the car stalling on gas and reverting to petrol on the run over which I assumed was linked to the driving switchover. I almost had the regulator changed because I assumed that this was the idling mixture that was at fault. In the end I did nothing but carried on muddling through and the system seemed to clear itself. Looking back all the syptoms could be linked to a bad oily tank of gas that had to work its way the system or get cleaned out. I wonder if the fact I do a reasonably high mileage (24000mpa) in 100 mile a day roundtrips to work may have something to do with it? Perhaps I am lucky with the local supply of gas? Anyway, not many solution suggestions here but if any of the symptoms are the same I might be able to remember some additional details if I put my mind to it!

well, i'll go though and give you a point by point list of my current problems.

car changes over to gas within a minute of starting, then stalls, restarting often takes 10 seconds or more of cranking, which is rather enbarrasing then the lights have just gone green! (unfixed, but work around by driving on petrol until warm)

misfire under 2-2.5k rpm (have to drive around it, some days its not so bad, other days its virtually un-driveable)

car "leans out" under acceleration, this can be a minor thing like just about noticing it, other times it can lead the car to slow down while your trying to overtake! this can also happen around corners, that maybe a false lead though (not figured that one out, feels like a delivery problems, but unable to repeat the problem consistently enough for someone to observe it and fix, on the more serious times, i get a message on the dash "slow down or change up" and the engine management light flashes, sometimes it goes off, other times stays on, i think it warms of multiple misfires and cat damage)

on long runs (200miles plus) when you lift off the accelerator to slow down for traffic in front, SOMETIMES when you re-apply the throttle you get nothing and have to change to petrol in order to be able to keep up safe overtaking lane speeds! this sometimes fixes itself quite quickly, other times it can take a while to sort itself. this feels like almost like a blockage, but unable to replicate for someone to look at and fix

all this on a 2002 V70 bifuel auto se thats just clocked though 108,000 miles, although most of the problems have been happening on and off for the last 30,000 or more miles

[petrov05]

Hi, I have same problems with my 2002 S60 factory Bi-fuel which I have since last October. It just turn 153 000 miles. It has been company directors car and and was kept immaculate, but I don't think the previous owner was to bothered runing it on LPG. When I started having the problems I went to Volvo dealers and did the ECM upgrade but it didn't help. Then I did spend lots of time on the net and found it was a common problem. On the forums there where so many people after nearly replacing all of the LPG system still had the problem with the stalling, loss of power etc... The more I read the more realised that is nothing to do with the LPG system. To cut the story short in my opinion the problem lies with the ETM and even if you somehow get Volvo to change it at a discount price or for free (impossible) they will use new part with same design fault and eventualy you will end with same problem. I have found a Canadian company who has overcome the design poblem and supplies sofware pre-loaded ETM's at $ 699 USD. I will order one in next couple of weeks and report on the outcome shortly. Their webpage is http://xemodex.com/. I hope is any help.

[MrP]

hmmmm i see what there doing, but it looks a bit prohibative to me.

your talking $799, you get $100 back if you return your ETM so $699, however if the package is sent at a value of $799 then you get the following

$799 is £526 or there abouts, and then HM government is gonna hit you for import tax, if its approx 30% then your gonna possibly get stung for £160 tax, making it a £700 ETM

whilst i dont doubt your reasoning that's alot of money to spend which wont fix some of the basic problems of the gas system.

If it was over here for £400 i might be tempted, but not at a potential cost of £700

[petrov05]

They are doing $549 to mainland USA and I have frend who lives in New York who will accept the pakage re-pack and send it as private gift so the price will be around £400. Why do you think it looks a bit prohibitive? They claim to have a patent to the DAS sensors. Thanks

[humphrey999]

>>i get a misfire under 2500rpm, and it clears after that, however changing all the coil packs and spark plugs hasnt changed it,

my experience has been to try to get the throttle body cleaned. It isn't mentioned on the websites but it sorted my problems.

>>car changes over to gas within a minute of starting

that sounds like a very quick changeover - even on warm days mine doesn't switch over that quickly.

>>restarting often takes 10 seconds or more of cranking

which mine takes when stalling on gas and restarting on petrol

>>i get a message on the dash "slow down or change up" and the engine management light flashes, sometimes it goes off, other times stays on, i think it warms of multiple misfires and cat damage)

likwise i get that everyso often but it clears iteself, in fact though not had it since the throttle boy was cleared. Are you sure than none of your new coil packs are faulty from new?

[classicswede]

Originally Posted by petrov05

Hi, I have same problems with my 2002 S60 factory Bi-fuel which I have since last October. It just turn 153 000 miles. It has been company directors car and and was kept immaculate, but I don't think the previous owner was to bothered runing it on LPG. When I started having the problems I went to Volvo dealers and did the ECM upgrade but it didn't help. Then I did spend lots of time on the net and found it was a common problem. On the forums there where so many people after nearly replacing all of the LPG system still had the problem with the stalling, loss of power etc... The more I read the more realised that is nothing to do with the LPG system. To cut the story short in my opinion the problem lies with the ETM and even if you somehow get Volvo to change it at a discount price or for free (impossible) they will use new part with same design fault and eventualy you will end with same problem. I have found a Canadian company who has overcome the design poblem and supplies sofware pre-loaded ETM's at $ 699 USD. I will order one in next couple of weeks and report on the outcome shortly. Their webpage is http://xemodex.com/. I hope is any help.

The ETM is a common problem but this effects the petrol system only. The ETM fault causes problems on both fuels not just LPG. The LPG faults are common to the system volvo used on all aplications and the type of throttle used does not make any difference. I've not come acros a problematic Bi fuel that has not been solved by changing the LPG system to a more suitable one.

If you are having throttle response problems on both fuels then chances are the ETM is at fault but if only on LPG then it is extreamly doubtfull that the ETM is an issue.

[petrov05]

Originally Posted by classicswede

....The LPG faults are common to the system volvo used on all aplications and the type of throttle used does not make any difference. I've not come acros a problematic Bi fuel that has not been solved by changing the LPG system to a more suitable one....

I have no money to put new system on and do not want to spend fortune on 153 000 miles 8 years old car even a superbly looked after as mine, so if you know where the fault my be can you please let me know. Thank you

Peter

[classicswede]

The fault is with the type of LPG system. There was just no way it was ever going to work right! There is no way to fix it properly as it will have never been perfect from day 1.

The most common major fault is the LPG distributor but teh replacments are not cheap and will never totaly solve the running problems.