Aligning a replacement distributor on a B200E engine

[Offgrid]

I'm on the home straight with the replacement of the missing distributor. However, I'm unsure of the rotor position when inserting the body into the head. My inclination is to remove the cap, and start to replace the body. Then I can turn to rotor until the body slides completly into the head. If I do this, will the rotor be in the correct position, or is it possible that it can be 180 degrees out? I read somewhere that the drive pins are asymetric, so this means there will only be one position. However it doesn't look as if it is asymetric to me. Do I have to go through the ritual of finding tdc, and aligning the rotor arm with the number 1 lead?

[360beast]

Originally Posted by Offgrid

I'm on the home straight with the replacement of the missing distributor. However, I'm unsure of the rotor position when inserting the body into the head. My inclination is to remove the cap, and start to replace the body. Then I can turn to rotor until the body slides completly into the head. If I do this, will the rotor be in the correct position, or is it possible that it can be 180 degrees out? I read somewhere that the drive pins are asymetric, so this means there will only be one position. However it doesn't look as if it is asymetric to me. Do I have to go through the ritual of finding tdc, and aligning the rotor arm with the number 1 lead?

They are asymmetric so you can't get it 180° out.

If it is like lh2.4 then an ignition ECU will take care of the ignition timing so you don't have to worry about getting it back in the exact same place,.there will probably be tell tale marks on the replacement distributor anyway from where the bolts were fitted.

[Laird Scooby]

What Luke said ^^^^^

It's difficult to tell by eye but the drive dog is offset from centre and you'll also find the cap can only go on one way as well so then it's just a case of making sure you get the leads in the correct place.

I'm sure someone will be able to provide a photo of the cap and leads so you can work it out from there. I can't remember if there's a section in the Haynes Book of Fantasy (HBoF) that shows the correct HT lead layout but there might be.

[SalvadorP]

Originally Posted by 360beast

They are asymmetric so you can't get it 180° out.

If it is like lh2.4 then an ignition ECU will take care of the ignition timing so you don't have to worry about getting it back in the exact same place,.there will probably be tell tale marks on the replacement distributor anyway from where the bolts were fitted.

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

What Luke said ^^^^^

It's difficult to tell by eye but the drive dog is offset from centre and you'll also find the cap can only go on one way as well so then it's just a case of making sure you get the leads in the correct place.

I'm sure someone will be able to provide a photo of the cap and leads so you can work it out from there. I can't remember if there's a section in the Haynes Book of Fantasy (HBoF) that shows the correct HT lead layout but there might be.

Hey Luke, Dave, does this mean that the timing can't be adjusted/messed by rotating the distributor, like in a 240?
And if so, what would be the other possible ways for a car to get out of timing? Improper timing belt installation or jumping a tooth? I was considering buying a timing light to test my car, because of the still persisting issues, but i wonder if it is even a worthy effort. I even made a post just asking about it, but I guess this post answers my question/confusion.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by SalvadorP

Hey Luke, Dave, does this mean that the timing can't be adjusted/messed by rotating the distributor, like in a 240?
And if so, what would be the other possible ways for a car to get out of timing? Improper timing belt installation or jumping a tooth? I was considering buying a timing light to test my car, because of the still persisting issues, but i wonder if it is even a worthy effort. I even made a post just asking about it, but I guess this post answers my question/confusion.

Basic rule of thumb is that if the dizzy is mounted on the back of the head, the timing is set/controlled by the ECU (EZK or Motronic, depending on model), the 240 i think you're referrring to has a block mounted dizzy which can be moved to set the timing. Later 240s (1986? onwards) have the same head mounted dizzy as the 7/9xx from that time.

I'd suggest you check your cam timing and also the tension on the timing belt. Many owners have the timing belt changed and neglest to have it re-tensioned at 600miles/1000km, if in doubt, renew the timing belt and don't forget to re-tension later. Also worth noting the crank pulley damper can move causing misalignment if the timing is taken from the timing marks on the pulley.

[classicswede]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Basic rule of thumb is that if the dizzy is mounted on the back of the head, the timing is set/controlled by the ECU (EZK or Motronic, depending on model), the 240 i think you're referrring to has a block mounted dizzy which can be moved to set the timing. Later 240s (1986? onwards) have the same head mounted dizzy as the 7/9xx from that time.

NOPE

EFI cars all have timing controilled by ECU and dizzy in fixed position
B230K cars have timing controlled by Renix again dizzy fixed position (also B200k)
K jetronic cars have timing adjustable at the dizzy. 740's with the hall sensor have adjument by rotating the dizzy
carb cars again are adjustable excluding the K engines mentioned above

240's all have a block mounted dizzy

740/760 for the first couple of years with B23 engine have block mounted dizzy
All the rest of the 740/940 range are the head mounted type

[Offgrid]

I don't know about the rest of the info, but classic swede is correct with his comments about my engine

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by classicswede

NOPE


K jetronic cars have timing adjustable at the dizzy.

740/760 for the first couple of years with B23 engine have block mounted dizzy
All the rest of the 740/940 range are the head mounted type

The last 2 740s with K-Jet B230E i owned both had head mounted dizzy, first one (a year older than the last two) had the B23E with block mounted dizzy. There was an EZK ECU under the steering column area which was fed my a vacuum tube from the inlet manifold for advance/retard purposes.

The Renix system is inherently unreliable, on not just Renaults but Volvos and Jeeps too. Off the top of my head, i don't know any other cars that use it.

[360beast]

Originally Posted by classicswede

NOPE

EFI cars all have timing controilled by ECU and dizzy in fixed position
B230K cars have timing controlled by Renix again dizzy fixed position (also B200k)
K jetronic cars have timing adjustable at the dizzy. 740's with the hall sensor have adjument by rotating the dizzy
carb cars again are adjustable excluding the K engines mentioned above

240's all have a block mounted dizzy

740/760 for the first couple of years with B23 engine have block mounted dizzy
All the rest of the 740/940 range are the head mounted type

Perfect explanation, I wasn't sure how k-jet worked as I've not worked on it and don't want to 😂

[Forrest]

Have you followed the procedures in the FAQ for testing the hall effect sensor? I think I included a link to this in another of your threads.

I would feel inclined to check very carefully the thin internal wires from the three-pin multi-plug on the distributor to the actual sensor on the opposite side. These are prone to breaking and the connector is prone to damage due to heat and oil contamination.

Whilst it appears from other replies that this model of engine will need the timing setting up accurately with a timing light it should be possible to get it close enough to start the car. If you set the engine at TDC via the timing marks on the timing belt cover you can then check that the rotor arm is broadly in the vicinity of the lead to piston 1 give or take up to about ten degrees. I think it should probably align exactly with the hall effect sensor at TDC, but I'm not sure having never had one of these engines. That will mean that you have got the basics right.

Then double-check you've got the HT leads in the correct firing order and see if you can get a spark at the plugs. If you're getting a spark from the king lead I can't see how you aren't getting a spark at the plugs unless there is something very wrong with the rotor arm, cap or leads.

Apologies if this all sounds very basic. It's just in my experience these intractable faults usually turn out to be something really simple in the end.

Don't give up!