Rusty 850's!!!!!!!

[Scott Stephen]

Hi.

As you may/may not know i'm a second hand Volvo/Saab dealer. I see a lot of these lovely beasts and love every minute.

850's are starting to concern me, no-one in the motor trade up here in Aberdeen likes them, why? - Build quality/reliability.

In especially K/L/M reg i'm seeing a lot of the following recurring rot-spots.

1. Lip of boot (Saloon)
2. Along top of windscreen
3. Along bottom edges of all doors
4. Around edges of steel sunroof.

As for reliability i here of many cases of seized timing belt tensioners allowing belts to skip teeth or break completely. I'm also hearing reports of burnt out valves on L.P.G. conversions.

I'm just reporting what i here, IM MOT slagging them!

I know that here in Aberdeen we have salty air, but there are still many immaculate D,E,F Aberdeen registered 700's on the go.

What happened? Did Volvo's values go out of the window when Ford took over? I cant believe the new S40 is going to have a Focus based floorplan. What's next? A Zetec powered S80???

Have the Volvo's that we have grown up with gone forever???????

I've already seen 900's advertised with the comments :"Last true Volvo"

Any comments?

[sholtby]

I have always regarded Volvos and Saabs as somewhere in between Audi/BMW/Merc and the rest with respect to overall build quality so your comments dont surprise me too much. Dont forget as you get older time seems to go quicker, those cars you mentioned are about 8 years old now.
Wasn't the 850 built in Holland in the old DAF factory. Cars that were built there never seem as well put together as those built in Sweeden.
A guy I know had a V40 and wanted to change but couldn't face the idea of buying another Volvo if Ford parts were being used. He ended up buying an Audi A4.
The last true Saab in my eyes was the 900. I used to have an 89 900S 16V turbo and enjoyed it very much. Never did find a 900 Carlsson at a sensible price. Also the body kit looked a bit 'aftermarket' the 16s looked better in someways.
Thanks for telling us where the 850's rust I'll get the waxoyl out and concentrate on the areas you mentioned.

Simon

[judgeman]

Thanks for the tips on the rust spots. I have a '96 (N) 854 T5 S, bought it in July prety much mint - I want to keep it that way!

I was concerned two years ago when Ford bought Volvo. I've always had Volvos, and my parents have had them for the last 23 years. I love the brand - would like a Merc, but somehow the Volvo brand is that little bit special - despite people running them down all the time, and saying they are not 'cool' cars. All I can say is get behind the wheel of a T5 and they'll soon change their mind!

I for one will be very cautious in the future when buying my next Volvo. I certainly DO NOT want one that's basically a re-hashed Focus or similar. Volvo is the badge, it's Volvo I want.

I'm not sure how many other Volvo owners feel this way, and how the message could get through to Ford/Volvo to make sure that the Volvo brand does not get watered down into the 'Ford Group' thing. For my money Volvo needs to be a Volvo - not just a Ford Focus in a new coat.

I know that car manufacturers, as with many other markets, have always 'mixed and matched' parts and technology. But in the past Volvo has always been a Volvo, with it's own quirks and trademark features. I'm over the moon with my T5, it's a car I've aspired to for years, and now I finally own one. I've never aspired to a Ford, and unless the new Volvos look and feel like a Volvo, then I'll be sticking to searching out good examples of older 'Proper' Volvos.

What do other Volvo people think?

[Pedro Fandango]

>What do other Volvo people think?

i think i agree with everything you have said

First of all, what is wrong with Ford? They make great cars, IMHO. Secondly, the Dutch could never build good cars bar the 300 series but the 850 was not made in Born but in Ghent in Belgium and they have made almost all 700/900 for the UK market and now the V70s and have an excellent track-record. What went wrong with the 800 series? Well, as far as anything did go wrong, probably the fact that the 800 series was uncharted territory for Volvo. The 900 series was the last Volvo of the old stock, the 800 the first of the new, thus they could never be as good as the 900 series. Finally, take a look at the V70s and S80s, if they are not great cars, then what are. Frankly, I have never liked smaller Volvos including the S/V40s and will always stay well away from them, Volvo was never a small and medium sized car maker and can never be one. As for the 900 series being the last Saab... they were pure ****e and horrible little cars. The only Saab ever worth driving was the 9000 series and frankly, they were pretty pathetic too, I know I had three!

Anyway, I'd buy a Volvo even if they made a banana with four wheels. There is just no other car like them! You call it crazy, I call it pride!


George

[link:www.ttsservices.co.uk/my%20volvos.htm|http://www.ttsservices.co.uk/imm021.jpg]

'95 940 Polar LPT (B230FK/AW71; 130k)
'92 940 SE Turbo (B200FT/AW71; 115k)
'87 740 GLE Turbo Diesel Intercooler (D24TIC/ZF22; 210k)

Gotta defend the Dutch here...

My 440 was a superb car. Ultra comfortable, ultra quiet and just an all round nice car. The only complaint I had about it was that it wasn't quick enough - but then it wasn't supposed to be.

My V40 is also a superb car. Also ultra comfortable (9 hours to Scotland recently and when I got out of the car I was not even tired). They are very real Volvos in the sense that the engines seem to last a long time, the build quality is in the same league as the V70's and the 2.0 Turbo engines (either of them) go like rockets.

Plus, the 400 series (and the V40 / S40) were IIRC designed for Volvo - the 300 is a rebadged Daf.

As for the issues with the 850's - it sounds very much like lack of tlc, the tensioners should be changed IIRC when the cambelt is changed, and if a car is properly cared for (washed often and waxed ever 12 months min) then it shouldn't rust - here in Holland I see many 850's and apart from parking damage, the Dutch can't park :), they are in much better condition than most of the 700 series that I have seen here - which are pretty much as you describe the 850's in Aberdeen.

As for the new S40 / V50 they are going to use the new Focus floor pan. Although the Volvos are out first so it's really the Focus using the S40 / V50 floor pan. And what do you think the new shape V70's are? Ever noticed how similar in size they are to the new shape Mondeo?

After owning a Fiesta as my first car, and wanting a MKII Granada Estate (huge comfortable cars) as my second (got a 205 CJ instead) I have to say I have nothing against Ford. If the V50 looks good I may well be after one in a few years.

Saabs? Well comfortable, and damn fast (had the use of a 93 2.0T Hot a few years ago for a couple of weeks), but ultimately dissapointing to drive if you want a drivers car. After 2 days in the Saab I stopped using it and went back to my Spitfire.

Stu

[Pedro Fandango]

My dad has always had SAAB (now got a 9-3 Aero Convertable), he brought his first when he was a truck driver, so he liked the effortless drive home from work (from 16 gears in the truck, to an auto SAAB).

But i must admit he done hours of research before buying his 9-3 to make sure it wasn't a re-badged Vectra (engine being his priority).

From what I understand it's a mixture of both, similar to the Mondeo / V70 mixture.

As for effortless driving - I'd agree with that, it's just at the time of getting my hands on the one I drove I didn't want effortless driving... :)

Stu

[Scott Stephen]

I must totally diagree here.

The 300/400 series was "Volvo's embarassment" From poor build quality to those naff Renault engines. A nightmare.

Early S40/V40's up here are now showing shines of corrosion in the rear arches.

As for Georges' comments on Ford.

Ford are a mainstream everymans car. The cars are built as cheaply as possible and churned out to us as quickly as possible. HOW can you possibly compare these to Volvo??????

Scott,

I am not comparing Volvo to Ford, I never said that, what I said was, "what's wrong with Ford" and the answer is: "nothing!". The clue is here, Ford has the skill and the scale to mass produce cars and on this scale of economy, Volvo can build, use the technology and the facilities that Ford has, if Volvo needs a new 50 million quid wind tunnel, it does not have to build their own, but simply use the facility on offer from Ford and so on. Agreed, if Volvo were to become a rebadged Ford, then the soul of Volvo would be lost, but Ford would not do that because the Ford management is not stupid, look at what they've done to Jaguar for a start.

George

[link:www.ttsservices.co.uk/my%20volvos.htm|http://www.ttsservices.co.uk/imm021.jpg]

'95 940 Polar LPT (B230FK/AW71; 130k)
'92 940 SE Turbo (B200FT/AW71; 115k)
'87 740 GLE Turbo Diesel Intercooler (D24TIC/ZF22; 210k)