Windscreen Washers

[Angie]

A bit of a mystery, quite abruptly the washers failed to work, and MoT coming soon. New pumps about three years ago and neither is working. Could this be an earthing problem, or a relay perhaps? I don't want to get the garage involved if it's something I can locate for myself, I've spent enough lately! The wipers are working so not a fuse, can't think of anything else so if any of you clever people have any ideas they'd be gratefully received.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Angie

A bit of a mystery, quite abruptly the washers failed to work, and MoT coming soon. New pumps about three years ago and neither is working. Could this be an earthing problem, or a relay perhaps? I don't want to get the garage involved if it's something I can locate for myself, I've spent enough lately! The wipers are working so not a fuse, can't think of anything else so if any of you clever people have any ideas they'd be gratefully received.

Just work through this methodically and you should be able to find out what is wrong pretty easily. Do the easy and free things first: see if there is power to the 12v side of the pump - if there is the problem must be the -ve return (assuming the pump itself works), if there isn't it must be a problem with the switch, wiring or fuse. If there is power to the pump then check across the pump terminals to make sure there is continuity, if that is okay then check the impedance to earth (ideally to the battery earth strap if your meter will reach that far) - it should be much less than an ohm.

So, in about 2 minutes you will have worked out where about the problem lies, then just narrow the search down until you find the issue. Don't just guess and start buying new parts, and only change one thing at a time until it is all working again.

Good fortune,

Alan

[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by Angie

A bit of a mystery, quite abruptly the washers failed to work, and MoT coming soon. New pumps about three years ago and neither is working. Could this be an earthing problem, or a relay perhaps? I don't want to get the garage involved if it's something I can locate for myself, I've spent enough lately! The wipers are working so not a fuse, can't think of anything else so if any of you clever people have any ideas they'd be gratefully received.

Hi Angie. I see why you suspect an earth connection.

I would start by checking the connectors are OK. Plug in ones I think? It is possible both might have come loose or got wet etc.

Also check if there is a fuse. Unlikely I think but always worth checking.

Then the spaghetti wiring diagram. To find out if the pumps are swithed in the live wires or in the earthing wires. That should give a good clue whether a single sonnection failure is likely to be live feed or earth connection.

After that, testing. Cleverer people than me have explained in the forum that a test light is a very good, in some ways better than a multimeter.

This problem will be caused by a simple thing. (I hope.) At what point is it better to get an auto electrician to sort it. This sort of stuff is bread and butter easy peasy for the trade I think.

Good luck and enjoy!!

Stephen.



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[Juular]

The earth point in the RHS wing near the washer bottle and pump is usually very rusty. It would probably benefit from being dismantled and cleaned.

In my case it had also worked its way loose and neither the headlight washers or washer pump worked.

[Stephen Edwin]

My bet is with your reply Juular. And that earth point was your perceptive suggestion Angie.

Earth points are an often overlooked aspect of maintenance.

Stephen

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[Angie]

Originally Posted by Juular

The earth point in the RHS wing near the washer bottle and pump is usually very rusty. It would probably benefit from being dismantled and cleaned.

In my case it had also worked its way loose and neither the headlight washers or washer pump worked.

Thanks, that's probably something I could manage so maybe I'll look at that first. It seems quite likely as both front and rear pumps have stopped working and both are relatively new, replaced just three or four years ago.

[Angie]

Originally Posted by Othen

Just work through this methodically and you should be able to find out what is wrong pretty easily. Do the easy and free things first: see if there is power to the 12v side of the pump - if there is the problem must be the -ve return (assuming the pump itself works), if there isn't it must be a problem with the switch, wiring or fuse. If there is power to the pump then check across the pump terminals to make sure there is continuity, if that is okay then check the impedance to earth (ideally to the battery earth strap if your meter will reach that far) - it should be much less than an ohm.

So, in about 2 minutes you will have worked out where about the problem lies, then just narrow the search down until you find the issue. Don't just guess and start buying new parts, and only change one thing at a time until it is all working again.

Good fortune,

Alan

Thank you for that comprehensive reply, much appreciated. I don't have any meters and things so I'll go for checking the earth connection first, which I think I can cope with. I can also check for broken wires etc. but only by manipulation, anything more technical will have to be left to the garage, I expect they could trace the fault fairly quickly but even at their relatively modest rate of £47 plus VAT the cost could mount up so I'm keeping fingers well and truly crossed!

[Angie]

Originally Posted by Stephen Edwin

Hi Angie. I see why you suspect an earth connection.

I would start by checking the connectors are OK. Plug in ones I think? It is possible both might have come loose or got wet etc.

Also check if there is a fuse. Unlikely I think but always worth checking.

Then the spaghetti wiring diagram. To find out if the pumps are swithed in the live wires or in the earthing wires. That should give a good clue whether a single sonnection failure is likely to be live feed or earth connection.

After that, testing. Cleverer people than me have explained in the forum that a test light is a very good, in some ways better than a multimeter.

This problem will be caused by a simple thing. (I hope.) At what point is it better to get an auto electrician to sort it. This sort of stuff is bread and butter easy peasy for the trade I think.

Good luck and enjoy!!

Stephen.



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Thank you Stephen, I must get out there and have a proper look very soon, it would be silly for an MoT failure because of something so simple, though I suspect a bit of welding might be needed too, and I was warned last year that headlight reflectors aren't as good as they might be so will probably get a couple of those anyway. Life is never dull with an old car - except that when I talk to people with modern cars about how much they spend just on servicing I don't feel so bad!

[Clifford Pope]

Earth points, and earth connectors generally, are just as important as positive feeds.
It is obvious really, but easy to forget because wiring diagrams always concentrate on the way components are linked by lots of coloured wires, and the earth is just left to find its own way home somehow

In the days when cars had separate chassis and bodywork was mounted on a wooden frame every component would have had two wires. I still think of electricity as consisting of two bits, each needing a supply, rather than as a circuit.

[Stephen Edwin]

Hello Angie.

How are those washers now?

Why do you suspet rust for the MOT? Where on the car?

Headlights: changing reflectors takes a bit of time. By the way garages end to replace the entire headlight. Anyway two suggestions for you.

1. See if a couple of good headlights might be available. Perhaps from a forum member. In case getting new headlights becomes the best option. I'm not suggwatinf buy now, just maybe ask around in the forum. Be prepared.

2. The headlights have to be removed either to chane reflectors or to change headlights. The lights are held by three little nuts on the back of EACH headlight.inside the engine compartment. ThosE nuts will be corroded on to the threads of little bolts ... machine screws. Please, apply penetrating oil, leave to work, repeat and repeat and repeat etc etc. That can save a lot of grief. When I did the job I used an aerosol of Plus Gas. Using the straw it is easy to get the penetrating oil on those nuts. Very well worth while to do this.

Enjoy ;0

STEPHEN

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