What happened to OEM?

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by ltec

You just can't help yourself. If you think that's quality aftermarket parts then it shows how little you actually know about aftermarket.
But that's not the argument. You are fitting the exact same part but paying more through volvo to satisfy your snobbery crave as in fitting sachs shocks but only in a volvo box.
It also fills me full of joy to fit sachs aftermarket shocks knowing I have saved money and haven't overpayed for the exact same part that the snobs are paying for in a volvo box. It also fills me full of joy to fit a skf bearing at half the price of a volvo one.
It's actually a bit sad that you believe volvos choice of tyre is best, Volvos brand of oil is best, volvos brand of filter is best. A mahle filter is every bit as good as Mann if not better. I was fit to buy mahle filters 3 times cheaper than volvo wanted.

For at least the second time, I've never mentioned Sachs shocks. And I never said nor believe that Volvo's choice of tyre is best. If it's the same part, then it's the same part.... but more often the you clearly realise, it is not....

[TruckbusUK]

If you think that's quality aftermarket parts then it shows how little you actually know about aftermarket.
But that's not the argument. You are fitting the exact same part but paying more through volvo to satisfy your snobbery crave as in fitting sachs shocks but only in a volvo box.

And in two sentences you have explained exactly what you don't know about car parts, genuine or otherwise, OE and aftermarket, how they are manufactured, how they are sold/marketed and what IPR (intellectual property rights) means.

Says it all really, believe what you want, but dont decry others experience of something you only think you know about ... regardless of how long you have been in the industry, what you have fitted and what your opinion is.

[ltec]

Originally Posted by TruckbusUK

And in two sentences you have explained exactly what you don't know about car parts, genuine or otherwise, OE and aftermarket, how they are manufactured, how they are sold/marketed and what IPR (intellectual property rights) means.

Says it all really, believe what you want, but dont decry others experience of something you only think you know about ... regardless of how long you have been in the industry, what you have fitted and what your opinion is.

It's not a matter of belief. A sachs shock is the same shock regardless of whether it comes in a volvo box or not. If you have proof it's not, please show me otherwise stop telling lies.

[TruckbusUK]

Originally Posted by ltec

It's not a matter of belief. A sachs shock is the same shock regardless of whether it comes in a volvo box or not. If you have proof it's not, please show me otherwise stop telling lies.

Lies, well thats a wild accusation, I used to work for Mannesmann Sachs AG before they became ZF, and you are 100% wrong, the OE divisions and aftermarket divisions do often manufacture/sell the identical part but where IPR is involved it is always a different part (regardless of how it looks from the outside,) may be subtle or just a minor tweak, but it is different.

You really should wind your neck in and dont talk about things you obviously dont understand and stop insulting people.

[ltec]

Originally Posted by TruckbusUK

Lies, well thats a wild accusation, I used to work for Mannesmann Sachs AG before they became ZF, and you are 100% wrong, the OE divisions and aftermarket divisions do often manufacture/sell the identical part but where IPR is involved it is always a different part (regardless of how it looks from the outside,) may be subtle or just a minor tweak, but it is different.

You really should wind your neck in and dont talk about things you obviously dont understand and stop insulting people.

Well I contacted ZF and I have written confirmation that the aftermarket shock is the same shock and that it would be too costly to produce 2 types for the same application.
So I think you should really wind your neck in and stop insulting people.
And yes telling lies, either ZF is lying about it being the same or else you are. Are you claiming ZF is lying?

[TruckbusUK]

Originally Posted by ltec

Well I contacted ZF and I have written confirmation that the aftermarket shock is the same shock and that it would be too costly to produce 2 types for the same application.
So I think you should really wind your neck in and stop insulting people.
And yes telling lies, either ZF is lying about it being the same or else you are. Are you claiming ZF is lying?

Was the part you enquired about covered by IPR ... ?

Why am I asking ... your modus for destroying threads is legendary, and congrats you have done it again.... oops I forgot your always correct regardless

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by ltec

You just can't help yourself. If you think that's quality aftermarket parts then it shows how little you actually know about aftermarket.
But that's not the argument. You are fitting the exact same part but paying more through volvo to satisfy your snobbery crave as in fitting sachs shocks but only in a volvo box.
It also fills me full of joy to fit sachs aftermarket shocks knowing I have saved money and haven't overpayed for the exact same part that the snobs are paying for in a volvo box. It also fills me full of joy to fit a skf bearing at half the price of a volvo one.
It's actually a bit sad that you believe volvos choice of tyre is best, Volvos brand of oil is best, volvos brand of filter is best. A mahle filter is every bit as good as Mann if not better. I was fit to buy mahle filters 3 times cheaper than volvo wanted.

Whilst I don't want to cause anyone any offence to anyone that uses genuine parts, I agree with what you say and that has been my feeling on it for a long time.

I only buy genuine parts if I can't source quality aftermarket from a well known brand. That's my personal preference and it saves money in the process.

Anyone that buys genuine, fair play to them. Its their car, their choice and their money. Its not something I'm willing to do, personally.

I fit parts on my car that suit my budget, not what suits someone else's. No, that doesn't mean I'm running the car on a shoe string. Quite the opposite, it takes time to research different parts and learn what's good and what isn't. There's quality aftermarket brands out there and those are the ones I use. I don't buy cheap junk.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by TruckbusUK

And in two sentences you have explained exactly what you don't know about car parts, genuine or otherwise, OE and aftermarket, how they are manufactured, how they are sold/marketed and what IPR (intellectual property rights) means.

Says it all really, believe what you want, but dont decry others experience of something you only think you know about ... regardless of how long you have been in the industry, what you have fitted and what your opinion is.

And this is the point, being careful to keep this to motor related topics, rather than other members, IPR (Intellectual property rights) is a very complex but very common practice and concept in manufacturing - which is very familiar to those involved in the industry and perhaps very curious to those who are not.

Manufacturers like Volvo and others spend millions and billions on R&D to create products they believe are better than their competitors and unique to them and their brand. As we know, car maker manufactures only a small percentage of parts they fit themselves, and outsources the rest to OEM manufacturers. But in almost every case - from wiper blades to engines - that is done to their standards which are protected by intellectual property rights and the legal contract between the manufacturer and brand. You will also find that the contract contains provisions whereby Volvo (or other brand) can enter factories at any time and audit production processes, materials and stocks.

Take the up and coming Euro 7 regulations whch impose new restrictions on emissions from brake systems - Volvo and others will spend millions on R&D to make brake discs and pads that comply to enable them to sell their cars, but remaining good brakes with a long life. Whilst that may have been done on their behalf by an OEM manufacturer, the output of that remains the IP of Volvo and they will never allow another manufacturer to benefit from that or the OEM manufacturer to sell that IP through their own brand - that makes no commercial sense. Brake pads sold through the Volvo network are never just made with the friction material mix that just happened to be in the pot that day.

And it will be the same with shock absorbers, the difference might be as minutia as the oil in the shock or materials used in the seals, but there will be many things about the factory fit SACHS supplied units that are different from those sold into the generic trade. Now it may be that on a model now 10-20 years old, the current SACHS generic part is actually better than the OEM fitted 10+ years ago due to developments made since - but it's not the same.

It's not just the motor trade, the recipe and mix of M&S's hot cross buns and chicken curries is their IP and the factory that makes it cannot simply put their own label on it and sell it.

That is how the world of manufacturing for the motor trade works, has done for many years, and will continue to do so. And that is why some of us take the view that the extra initial cost of genuine parts is the most certain and low risk way of restoring a car to working as it did the day it left the factory.