Swift LED light problem
 

This might have been covered in an earlier post but we have a problem with our 2019 Swift Challenger 590 with Sargent electrics and LED lights. When connected to the car the indicators are on (not flashing but dimly lit) all the time. I'm told this is not uncommon and affects some BMW, Land Rover/Range Rover, Mercedes and Volvo models. Sargent do a vehicle lighting modification module (VLM) of which they are now up to VLM6. Thing is, surely if they have a fix then the van was not fit for purpose in the first place. My dealer wants 150 quid to fix my 23 grand caravan. Another option is to update the car but the guys at Portland Towing in Lincoln tell me there's not a trailer module for my car - a late 2010 XC90. It is fitted with westafalia detachable bar and vehicle specific wiring, but not Volvo parts. Any advice gratefully received. My inclination is to dig my heels in and claim the van was not fit for purpose under the Consumer Rights Act of 2015 and try to get the VLM6 fitted foc.

I had heard this and was aware when I bought my 2018 Swift Conqueror 580. At the dealer(Grantham Caravans) the lights were tested and OK but if they weren’t then they would have fitted the VLM6 there and then with no mention of cost. It is fitted with genuine Volvo electrics.

My son bought a 2014 Range Rover and I was not sure if the lights would be OK but I turned out that they were.

I did contact Sargent direct and from what they told me they were quite happy to supply the VLM6 and was told that it came with complete instructions for what was an easy fit.

It may be that the problem is your electrics not the caravan!

As you say go back to your dealer and try and get them to fit it for free.

That's a pain in the neck but i don't think there's much you can do except pay up and look big.

Swift and/or Sargent obviously recognise there's a problem (i'm guessing with the CANBus protocols on the cars you mention) and are developing their VLMs to cope with new problems as and when they are found.

Swift/Sargent didn't choose your car - you did, therefore as you have been advised it may need a VLM, you were/are aware of it. It's obviously not every car in the car parc or there would be a case of the van not being fit for purpose but it appears to be limited to 2, possibly 3 that probably use a Bosch CANBus system (BMW, Merc and Volvo) and i have no clue what system JLR use. Given Lucas is now (i believe) Chinese owned and i think the Chinese either own or have a large pair of chopsticks dipped into the JLR pie, it would suggest if it is Lucas badged it's a Chinese thing.
Your XC90 was made under Fords ownership so who knows whether it's Bosch, Siemens, Fords own or what.

Some possible solutions :

1. "Put up and shut up" :tounge_smile: Not ideal but is the simplest/cheapest.

2. Talk nicely to whoever installed the towbar and/or sold you the caravan to see if they'll do you a deal on the correct VLM to eliminate the problem. Likely to be the easiest solution.

3. Sue them under the "Not fit for purose" act. Dubious whether you'll get anywhere, the court is likely to take the view you knew about the problem but still bought a Volvo and a Swift. Could involve huge costs that you'd probably find yourself liable for - definitely not ideal!

4. Approach Sargent, explain the problem to them and tell them you're willing to let them use your car and van as a development/test bed to perfect a VLM specifically for Volvo XC90 models on the understandng they fit a finished module (not a prototype) FOC for you.
It would save them a lot of time, guesswork and a fortune in development costs so is a potential win-win situation.

5. Sell the XC90 and the Swift, buy a 1995 960 and similar age Swift, with the spare £££ you have, get them both refurbed to match (or better) the condition of your "old" car and van and drive off into the sunset with your holiday home on wheels without any problems.
Probably not the solution you're thinking of but we didn't get these problems before CANBus was invented!

I would like to point out i'm not an expert on trading laws, you may find you do indeed have more redress available to you but for that advice you'll probably have to pay a solicitor for a consultation of some sort and/or them to send letters and so on. I'm suggesting what i percieve to be the outcome based on the information i have.

Hopefully in my suggestions there will be a workable solution for you or possibly a mix'n'match of solutions to get you what you need in the most cost effective way.

Reading the first post, you say that the caravan indicators are dimly lit all the time. Have checks of the towing socket and towing system been made? The assumption is that the Volvo towing module is causing this by sending out a checking signal as it "looks" for a circuit through a conventional filament style bulb. That signal is not enough to light up a conventional bulb but is enough to cause a sensitive LED to illuminate.
The problem is caused by your car being designed for conventional filament bulbs and your caravan being designed without a thought for what will be towing it. If it has LED indicators then another problem that will arise is that the bulb failure monitor for the indicator circuit probably won't work - and indicator failure warning is a legal requirement - does the trailer indicator lamp flash on the dash in time with the indicators?
One way around your problem may be to modify the Volvo. The trailer indicator circuits could be rewired to switch relays fitted between the tralier module and the towing socket, perhaps with an audible monitor to warn of failure.
Or you may find that a more modern design of towing module which has LED compatibility is available for your car. UK company Right Connections (manufacturers and distributors of towing electrics) are experienced with this type of question.

Definitely not fit for purpose.

Prove that the vehicle wiring is in good order by connecting it to a standard lighting trailer board or caravan then put it squarely on the hands of the supplying dealer.

Was any part of the purchase paid for by either finance or credit card over £100 ?

If so ask for assistance from either the finance company under the supply of goods act 1973 or credit card company under sales of goods act/section 75 consumer credit act....they are obliged to assist you.

I would contact volvo and ask if if a dedicated Volvo electric kit would fix your issue.

LED Light Issue
 

We have a Elegance 645 2019 with the same LED Lights mentioned already.

The Car I use is an 2011 XC90 but I did not put the Towbar on this Vehicle or the wiring so cannot say for certain if the previous owner did have an issue and corrected it but when I went from old light bulbs to LED it did so without and hassles I am reading here.

Maybe I was lucky as I doubt your Challenger is any different in wiring or Road Lights to my Elegance??

Not had any issues with this on various Swift and Volvo combinations.

All my Volvos have had Volvo towbars/wiring.

I am just about to buy a V60 D6 Hybrid and a new Eccles 'van next couple of weeks and had wondered about this. First off it has been discussed at length (to death) on Swiftalk and elsewhere and the idea of suing under Consumer legislation is a waste of time. My feeling is there may be a poor/dirty connection (probably earth return) adding to the problem. It appears I may be ok (I will be having a vehicle specific dedicated wiring loom used when the towbar is installed) however will keep this at the back of my mind - just in case.

If LED lights are glowing dimly, the it is caused be the module in the car that provides the power for the lights not switching off completely.
In the industry we call this "leakage".
The residual "leakage" voltage is enough to illuminate the LEDs dimly.

You can solve the issue by adding extra resistive load to the circuit to provide enough load to "consume" the leakage and drop the leakage voltage down to 0, or so close it doesn't matter.

This can be done really easily by just adding a resistor across the LED lamp to provide more of a load.

It doesn't need to be a high power low-ohm resistor.

In many cases you can get away with a 1kOhm 1/4 watt resistor.
Costs around 2p, ie: nothing.
Fit the resistor where-ever you want in the trailer or in the car.
Ideally in the car, as it is the car that in at fault, not the LED lamps.
You could even connect it inside the trailer plug if you have enough space and it is weather proof enough.

Depends whether you will use the caravan on multiple cars (then fit to caravan), or use the car with multiple trailers (then fit to car)
Or fit to both.

You only need one resistor per circuit. not one per LED lamp.


The root cause is actually both car and caravan:

The car expects normal incandescent lamps on the trailer, and is not designed to be used with LED tail lamps

The caravan (trailer) expects the car to completely shut off the voltage to the trailer lamps when the lamps are not in use, and is not designed for use with cars that have a residual "leakage" voltage.

So point the blame finger where-ever you want. It'll get you no-where.
The solution remains very simple, regardless of the blame.

Thanks for all the replies - most of you have hit the nail on the head to varying degrees.

However, I will summarise in case anyone else finds they have this problem.

Firstly, the strange lights - (owners of different cars report slightly different results) - only happen with Swift models using Sargent electrics. This is therefore clearly avoidable and indeed Sargent will supply a Vehicle Lighting Module (VLM) which sorts the problem. I fully expect this has an addition resistor in circuit which provides the fix as previously suggested but owing to all the other electrics (it replaces the original module) comes in a £97. The latest VLM6 sorts all non-compatible cars and is invisible to those that would never have had a problem.

Secondly the problem only arises if the car does not have low voltage lights somewhere, with the CanBus designed accordingly. If you have LED high level brake lights or LED day running lights or just a more modern model you won't have a problem. XC60s don't appear to bother, new XC90s likewise and possibly older XC90s after 2012 or so. My 2010 XC90 certainly does.

I agree it's the cars fault (if we are desperate to apportion blame) but ultimately Swift did not make a touring caravan that could be towed by a full range of towcars without modification.

So I guess as one poster said - I can cough up and shut up - although I still think the fact that Sargent make a VLM6 indicates they know there is a problem and could make all models compatible with all cars for a few quid if they modified the basic light module at source. I like the simple resistor fix but would need to find an auto-electrician as I'm not confident in hacking into my electrics.

Thanks for all replies and info.

Thanks for the update.

Just to put it into perspective you have spent £30k on a new caravan and won’t spent £97 to sort out a problem!

I know it’s annoying but just a thought!

Pretty much that's exactly where I stand. Imagine if you bought a new car then had to buy an after-market kit from Halfords to make it road legal.

You have to buy VED - same principle except you're buying it from the govt not Hellfrauds.

XC 70 towbar electrics
 

Hi,

I'm new to this forum but am delighted to find this thread - which seems to highlight a problem(s) similar to mine....

I've just bought a 2009 XC70 with the Volvo detachable towbar and 13 socket electrics. My Caravan is a 2017 Swift Fairway (Challenger) with LED lights.

When connected, I am getting symptoms as follows:-

1. The Caravan sidelights are continuously flickering

2. The indicators work at a faster than normal speed

3. There is no specific indication on the instrument cluster when indicating and no audible signal (I am assuming there should be?)

4. I get two warning displays "Trailer Brake lights" and "Trailer Indicator Bulb" I can "Read" these and they go off but of course return if the car is stopped.

Having said all of the above ALL the lights on the 'van operate as they should do, including fog and reverse lights.....

I have initially removed and checked out the wiring loom from the control box in the boot to the 13pin socket, suspecting dirty contact and short circuits (it's apparent that the towbar has been little used) However everything checks out fine and insulation within the socket is in good order.

Having read this thread I'd be pretty sure that the root cause is the sensing current operating the LED's and the lack of filament bulbs "fooling" the car into thinking that the trailer has faulty bulbs??

Is it also possible that the car software is out of date??

Can the sensing circuit be removed/disabled without sending the canbus system into a spin?

Any ideas gratefully received!

Thanks in advance


Peter S

If you log on to the Sargent website and search for VLM4 they have a special offer on a replacement unit that should overcome your problem. £42.

Great stuff - Thanks!

A job for over the winter months!

Peter

The indicator repeater flashing fast is your bulb out warning, there is no separate trailer repeater light on the dash.
I fOundle this out when I bought my 2010 XC70, my previous 1999 V70 had the separate trailer repeater light when the new car did not I thought something wrong and contacted selling dealer. Volvo technical confirmed there was only 1 repeater light and if it flashed fast there was an indicator bulb not working, this held true wether it was a car or trailer indicsterror.
I tested this by plugging my trailer board into the cat, testing that the trailer indictators were working then removing a trailer indicator bulb, indeed the repeater started flashing faster.
The car is legal to town with as there is indication of any of the indicators failing, you just have to go look to find which one.

Paul.