Would VIDA show fault with glow plug?
 

C30 1.6D 2009

Reduced Engine Performance issue.

Vida says - ECM 6620 Glow relay control - faulty signal

Im thinking of first changing the glow plugs to see if that sorts it, because easier/cheaper.

Just wondering if Vida would show a fault if specifically with one of the glow plugs? If it would then I guess not much point in replacing them.

Thanks

The glow plugs should only be used for cold starting, not for running. As such if you have a performance problem, there's something else not right somewhere.

Do you have a cold start problem? If so, investigate the glow plugs individually but double-check what voltage they operate on, for some strange reason cars after 2000 (in general) have some strange voltage glow plugs so don't use full battery voltage until you know they can take it.

First port of call with any fault is to read the codes (which you've done), clear them and then drive it and check the codes again. You can never know if it's a historical code that has suddenly caused you a problem.

Thanks Dave,

I tried clearing the codes and going for a drive. The only code to persist was this EMC 6620 Glow relay module - faulty signal.

I recently learnt that the glow plugs are activated by opening of the drivers door to pre heat the engine. Looking at the hidden menu on the dash I have DDM DTC SET (Driver Door Module), and was wondering if this could be link. This has been on their many months now, I thought it was related to driver door airbag or something.

The reduced engine performance msg does come up when I start the engine, or when I turn the key to position ll, but not sure if that is coming up because I haven't cleared it yet from the first time it popped up, which was driving a little aggressively around a roundabout.

I don't know or use VIDA but at an edumacated guess i'd say DDM DTC SET translates as :

DDM = Drivers Door Module (as you've already said)
DTC = Diagnostic Trouble Code
SET = Set - status report so there's a DTC with information on a problem with the DDM

With that in mind, do you have any problems with cold starting?

Also does the courtesy light work when the door is opened? If not, i'd have a look at that, might be a blown bulb, switched off at the light or the door pin switch or wherever the switch is on yours (possibly in the handle to trigger the courtesy light and glow plug relay at the time you lift the handle) and check that all works. Sometimes the ECUs depend on the bulb working as a pull-up resistor to the ECU and when the bulb is turned on by the door pin switch or similar going to earth, it pulls the ECU input low triggering the timing circuitry.

Not sure if that will apply to yours but many others work that way, reasonable to assume that as a good starting point, even if it's wrong you may uncover the problem anyway by investigating that.
Don't forget to clear the DTCs (codes) before testing each time or you won't know if you've found the fault.

That fault code indicates there is something wrong in the main power supply to the glow plugs or the current is not as expected , either shorted glow plugs or open circuit glow plugs or wiring ... Possibly a glow plug but prove it first by measuring their resistance to ground with the leads off ... they should be very low about 2 ohms or so ... and all the same reading .. Only the larger volvo engines have individual fault diagnosis for each glow plug .

No problem cold starting, to be fair its starts up on the button every time. Any conditions.

Is it in the door handle that triggers the glow plugs to fire up? I wonder if they (or not all) the glow plugs have been warming the engine as should.

Also, no issues with nterior lights. Lights come one when exiting the car and Im sure they come one when I remote unlock when getting in.

NO the ignition isnt on until you turn the key ..

The Design and Function section of Vida should explain glow plug control and I doubt the drivers door will feature but I stand to be corrected.

Click on the fault code in Vida then View Information for an explanation of the fault code and the possible causes and fixes and work through them.

As said, a resistance test of the glow still in place should be all that's required to diagnose or eliminate them.

Hi Clan,

You helped me previously with my accelerator pedal sensor, which turned out to be a simple clean of the CEM board/connectors with contact cleaner. No issues since.

Hoping this is something as easy to fix with contact cleaner again lol. I searched for ECM location and saw in a post from 2016 you said it was located on the right behind the front wheel arch... is that right looking at the front from outside (passenger side), or right from within the vehicle (drivers side)? Just incase I do need to get at the glow relay and get the contact cleaner out.

Im not too clued up when it comes to electrics, have had a go before with varying success. Like the accelerator pedal great success, thanks. But if I am going to test the glow plugs; "by measuring their resistance to ground with the leads off".... am I right in understanding that you mean remove the leads from the plugs first, then test the resistance to ground by holding one tester probe (+ red) on the glow plug and the other probe (- black) on e.g. vehicle body, or anywhere that would be ground/earth?

If they are higher than 2 ohms they need replacing?

Thanks

@2:00 https://youtu.be/lsuP1QkKcXU

:icon_smile_lachuh:

Brilliant thanks lol... i will report back tomorrow

1.6d have performance issue if the glow plugs fail.

How does a failed glow plug affect how the engine runs on a journey with the 1.6?

On modern diesel engines the glow plugs are not only used for starting the engine. The glow plugs are also used during normal operation and driving. The reason of this is to make the engine run smoother and reduce emissions.

A defect of the glow plug system should generate DTC codes. Volvo and Ford Tdci will cause limp mode with failure of the glow plug

Presumably that will effect all other cars that use the same engine then? Such as the BMW Mini, PSA HDi engines and so on.

I don't see it as being an effective measure as glow plugs take time to heat up and therefore have an effect on emissions, also if the engine efficiency is dropping to the point where it doesn't have enough residual heat to efficiently fire the next cycles charge, it pionts to a design fault.

More voodoo to hide the fact that diesel is a dirty fuel! :realmad:

I have glow plug connector issues, I have also had incorrect plugs installed, thread not in the correct place thus the tips not reaching the required position and Ive not had any plug related Vida codes show up...

Yours is a bit bigger than a 1.6 though. Seems from the comments above this problem is mainly with the 1.6 engine, possibly the 2.0 as well but not sure.

Yeah, i noticed, just thought i would mention my experience
If anything, i would have thought it would show in Vida on mine more than the P1 seen as its a later setup

I'd make a guess that with the smaller engine, at low speed/load it doesn't create enough heat to maintain an efficient burn but yours being bigger does. Like i said, a design fault, overcome with a bodge to try and alter the Laws of Physics and/or Chemistry to try and pull the emissions back into line.

All volvos external connectors where the water is liable to get to them are waterproofed with rubber seals around each wire in the connector ..


Regarding glow plugs , yes you have the idea . They are not likely to fail shorted . more likely open circuit . but see what the resistance is ...

I just want to check before I start that I am looking at the glow plugs at the top there in the attached photo?

When looking at videos online the glow plugs wernt situated conveniently on the top like that, they were in awkward to reach places behind pipes, more towards the front. But as Ive got what looks like my AC cylinder there Im guessing myy plugs are on top?

Thanks

If you're talking about the 4 things with metal pipes connected, they're the injectors.

I would imagine that the glow plugs are on the rear of that engine and they will have similar relative spacing to the injectors.

Non Volvo engine so don't expect easy glow plug access. :)

Thanks Cheshire,

Good job I didn't start pulling at them then lol... and a good job I asked lol.

I'll go and have another look.

What engine is in that then if not Volvo?

Ford. Also referred to as HDi when fitted in PSA models, something else in the BMW Mini and various others :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratorq_engine

Pretty sure that the 1.6 and 2.0 (4 Cylinder) are Ford/PSA

I've worked on them in a Peugeot 207 badged HDi and Fiesta badged TDCi just never done the glow plugs.

They're made under licence by PSA for their Pug/Cit models and BMW mini, also in Sweden (2.0 only i believe) prsumably for Volvo

What are the chances this engine has only got 2 plugs?
Yes... nightmare to get to!

Zero! Looking above those two plugs there appears to be an inlet tract for each pot, i would assume (as the photo isn't wide enough to see the other two pots that the same applies and you'll find the other two grow prugs in a similar place further along.

I've seen worse but not often and can't remember on what...............

Yes, I think I've seen a third one but its buried.... OMG!

Should I disconnected the battery as well before testing these, or is there no need?

No need.
Ignition off and remove each plug connector is all that's needed.

Yes there's a lot of crossovers out there.
A Mitsubishi Di-D I work on has a Mercedes-Benz engine of all things.

Is this tester any good, is it capable of reading 2 ohms?
I see 200k but tbh I dont know what that means lol.

I tried testing 2 of the plugs like in the video but it didnt seem to be reading anything. Do I need a proper tester to do this really?

I only got this tester for testing broken appliances.

That multimeter should be plenty good enough.
As mentioned in the video I linked, it needs to be on the lowest resistance setting so 200 ohms in your case and the case for most cheap meters.

Ohh, hang on, the lowest setting? So should that be on 20K?

I just turned the dial at the ohms symbol, but that relates to the whole green 1/4 of the dial doesn't it.

No, 200 which is the furthest right in the green ohms section.
20k is 20000.

You have a 20 Ohm range on it! Use that! :thumbs_up:

The ranges, going clockwise in Ohms are :

20
200
2k
20k
200k
2M (2 million Ohms)

The 20 Ohm range is at just before the 6 o'clock position.

Thanks guys.... Id be lost, and very skint without this forum lol

I would love to know what engine is in this if not volvo, so I can write them a strongly worded letter lol... that was a nightmare, almost lost a few digits.

Tested all 4 as best I could. For some reason holding ground on the engine block gave no reading like in the video. Actually hold both probs on the engine block gave nothing, so cant be conductive. Alloy?
So I had to hold one prob on the top of the plug and the other just below on the thread. No easy feat!

Anyway, 2 plugs were 1.2, and 2 plugs stopped on 0.7. Both below the suggested 2 ohms. Is this a good thing or not?

Can they all stay in place? Next stop glow relay in the ECM?

Thanks

You may have to scratch the surface to get a good earth on the engine

I would clean up the engine earth while you're in there just as a matter of course