B20 Starter issue
 

I have a 62 544 with a 69 B20 engine. Recently it has developed a hard start problem. It seems like the timing is off and it has too much compression. However that does not seem to be timing since I tried setting it advanced and retard and neither helped. This happens only when cold(first start after sitting awhile) after it warms up it starts right up. It quickly sucks the life from the battery. I recently had to install an electric fuel pump to help with starting. I use it as a prime and then turn it off once it is running. I have a new starter that I could install but in looking at the uninstall/install I would rather make sure it is a starter problem, since the process seems to be labor intensive. Does this indicate a starter issue?
Thoughts?

Failing to start or being hard to start is usually not caused by a problem with the starter motor, unless the motor is cranking very slowly. Even if the motor cranks slowly, if fuel mix and spark are correct the motor will usually start. The fact that "after it warms up it starts right up." suggest it might be a fuel mixture problem.

If the motor is cranking very slowly when it is cold, check the battery terminal voltage when the motor is cranking. If the voltage is less than about 10 volts, your battery may be near the end of its life.

Changing a starting motor is not labour intensive. Once the front of the car is jacked up and secured on some blocks or stands, it would probably take me about 30 minutes to remove and replace the starter. on my 142

Incorrect timing which shows apparent too much compression tends to mean that the timing is too advanced. Timing doesn't change unless the dizzy is loose beyond a fraction due to points wear. Check timing by the book. If the starter works, i.e. it turns the motor at a reasonable speed the car should start. If the battery is poor or has a low charge it will rob some of the juice for sparks but there is usually enough for ignition to happen. Does the starting improve if you jump start from a car with a good battery and the engine running?

lel...;

I would call it a "starting issue"...not a "Starter issue"!

To go along with the good info from 142g and Derek, I would just like to add that compression of an engine cannot change on its own ...and randomly "...setting it advanced and retard and neither helped", is no troubleshooting technique...

I might take your comment of "it has too much compression" to be your description of the symptom of ignition occurring while the pistons are coming up on compression...and this could be a combination of slow cranking where it is more noticeable (low V at Starter - for all the well known reasons...assure reasonable cranking speed with >9-10V, measured at Starter, applied), or because Timing is truly early (check and reset basic Timing setting and also verify Cent Adv is not bound up and free to return to the base setting)...after that, the mixture enrichening necessary for a cold-start are also well-understood...

Good Hunting!

The battery is at 14.3 volts. I have a trickle charger on it. I can check starting volts later. The starter definitely spins slowly and draws much power. the engine did start yesterday but really dragged to start. This distributor does not have vacuum advance. I will reset timing to specs and see what happens. I recently changed the jets in the carb and had to add an electric fuel pump to help prime when the car sits awhile. It used to just spin and spin because fuel pump was not drawing well. I have replaced mechanical pump twice. I will check the battery as well. It is not that old but that could be the problem. I have a jump pack I can try.

14.3 volts would have to be the voltage on the battery terminals with the engine running and that is not an indication of battery condition. It just means that your alternator / generator is working. A freshly charged battery at rest would probably be around 12.6 volts.

If your starter motor is turning slowly, you likely have one or more of the following:
- the battery has high internal resistance (it is getting old),
- you have problems with the electrical connections between the battery and the starter, or
- you have s problem with the solenoid / starter.

Do the battery terminal voltage check while cranking first, just because it is the easiest test. If the battery voltage is good then repeat the test, but measure the voltage at the large bolted terminal on the starter. The voltage should be just slightly less than the actual battery voltage. If it is a lot less, then you have a bad electrical connection someplace - which could include body ground connections. If the voltage test all come back as acceptable, then its time to examine the starter motor.

If you are going to the trouble of removing the starter motor, I suggest that the starter motor be the later Bosch SR 437X permanent magnet starter. It draws less current and spins the motor faster than the early SR 37X starter and is a drop in fit except for having to use different mounting bolts. Rock Auto has genuine Bosch SR 437X remans.

As a suggestion, you are bouncing around between problem areas like a ping pong ball. If you are looking for assistance, start on one potential area such as the starter motor and confirm or eliminate it as a source of the problem. If you can eliminate it as a source of the problem, then move on to the ignition system and confirm or eliminate it as the cause of the problem. If you eliminate the ignition as a problem then move on to the fuel system. This of course presumes that the engine is mechanically OK, i.e. that the valve clearances and valve timing is correct and that the compression is good.

In your first post, you made a comment about too much compression. How did you confirm that you have too much compression, or was that just idle speculation?

OK, took battery to be checked out and it was bad. Replaced it. Did starter test and at first it still struggled but speed up. Battery was at 12.7 volts and dropped to 10.8 at connection to the starter when trying to start. Timing is set correctly. Letting it set and will try a fresh start next day to see if it still struggles with starter.