Planning on buying a 240 this summer, any advice?
 

I am planning on buying a 240 Estate this summer, most likely mainland Europe due to much lower prices and if I plan on road trips to Europe anyway, right hand drive will be most suitable.

However I know little on the 240 models, so was wondering if there's some important things to look out for, specifially for a 240 model, ideally looking for the older, first generation models with the rounded headlights and straight bonnet.

Hopefully this can become my project car. :p Already have all sorts of plans for it and tasteful upgrades.

The big thing to look out for is rust. Mechanical problems are easier to deal with than rust. If you look at this thread https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=312429 you'll get a good idea of where 240s tend to rust. The thread will also give you a good idea of what it takes to repair it. Estates rust under the tailgate too.

Good luck -- a well sorted 240 estate is a very practical and comfortable not quite classic car.

I would not have thought that importing a pre-1979 LHD 245 would be either a cheap or easy solution. This thread of a project car that came from Italy might give you an idea:

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=303961

As was said above, the biggest problem would probably be rust - mainly the rear wheel arches, sills, boot floors, around the windscreen and the tailgate on estates. I’m not trying to put you off - I think my 244 is lovely - but 40 year old car projects are not for the feint hearted, particularly if you don’t know much about these cars.

You will notice that prices for pre-1981 cars are 50-100% higher than for the later cars, this is because they can be MoT and tax exempt in the UK. Unless you are prepared to pay a premium for an historic car, I’d suggest a younger car might be more suitable, particularly if you plan long touring trips.

Good fortune.

As Othen said, look for a car that's as young as possible; ideally you want a 2.3 Fuel injected model (B230E engine code) without the catalytic converter, and manual box.

Rust is definitely your enemy: mechanical bits can be easily and relatively quickly replaced/repaired but rust removal and replacemnt is time- and money-consuming,plus the car will be undrivable while the rust is being dealt with.

There are a few threads covering this exercise so spending some time reading them will give you some pointers.

With respect Venomtail, I think Loki is right and this type of motor car would suit your needs far better than a pre-79 one:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184787836...MAAOSwfCNggxbU

... This will be far cheaper than an historic car, far more efficient, much better for touring trips to Europe, easier to get spares for, seems to have been well looked after and so on (this is just an example I found on eBay, I'm not selling the car!).

Good fortune.

Alan

As said rust is the enemy.

I had a 1989 240GLT for 10 years and 8 as only daily driver car.

The B230E is a great engine and mine was Automatic. A good combo for me. I added 72,000 miles on my 240 and very reliable and very trouble free. Sold at 234,000 miles and have a 940 now.

Highly rate a late 240.

James.:thumbs_up:

I agree with what's been said by others: newer is better when it comes to 240s. From about 1989 they had better rust protection, and the Bosch LH fuel injection systems are robust. The KE-jet injection on some models is also very good as long as you take care of air leaks in the intake and injector seals. It's my understanding that if the injection electronics fail on these they default back to operating as mechanical K-jet and run normally, if less efficiently.

The problem with 240s is that they have become too expensive to buy. They are no longer a cheap answer to comfortable and reliable motoring. For that it's best to look elsewhere -- Toyota and Mazda estates from the early to mid 2000s perhaps.

For a vintage yet still somewhat practical Volvo driving experience I like 140 series Volvos up to 1972. An ideal setup for these is a B20B motor, M41 manual, and an upgrade to modern electronic ignition. But good examples don't come cheap and are uncommon.

There have been some really sensible comments above Venomtail.

You have something of a dichotomy: if you want a car that is good for long overseas touring trips then the latest car you can find (an early 90s car) would be best; on the other hand if you want a project car with round headlamps then it would have to be a pre-1980 motor.

My car is a 1980 244 (the RB), I love it to bits but I wouldn't want to take it on a 2,000 mile touring holiday - it is reliable enough but low geared, quite thirsty (25 MPG) and has few of the safety and comfort features of the later cars - one of my other cars would always be better for that. The RB is an excellent project car though: modern and reliable enough to drive on the roads but providing just enough challenges to be interesting. It has a carburettor, manual choke, 3 speed auto gearbox and the only electronic item is the quartz clock. These are all good things from the perspective of maintaining a 41 year old car, but bad things from a long touring holiday vista.

As others have pointed out, later cars would be much more suitable to your needs, be much less prone to rust, be more efficient, easier to maintain, safer and more comfortable. Very good later cars can be purchased for £2,000 to £3,000 whereas even a middling historic car will cost over £5,000.

It is up to you, but you probably can't satisfy both your requirements with one car (and I really wouldn't think importing a LHD car would be sensible at all).

I hope we hear from you again Venomtail.

Alan

The only KE-Jetronic models we got here in the UK were those with catalytic converters and Lambda sensors and the electronics simply controls the mixture a bit tighter than the basic K-Jet system does all by itself. In simple terms, if the electronics sees a voltage rise from the Lambda sensor, it decreases the control pressure on the injection to reduce the CO, conversely if the Lambda voltage is too low, it increases the control pressure to increase the CO - this is all set round a basic setting that was "optimal" on the day it was set.

As such, you're spot-on that if the electronics fail on a KE-Jetronic, the system then operates as a normal K-Jet but it's not really a practical solution having electronic control of a mechanical device to alter the mixture, yes it works fine for ages then when it fails....... :eek: :err: :eek:






Nicely summed up Alan! I agree about the later cars but if the OP wants to go classic then i would avoid anything with EFi, particularly those with LambdaSond as that brings a whole different level of home servicing into the mix. Very few people left "in the trade" that understand the early Bosch injection systems, these days if they can't plug an OBD-II reader into it they're banjaxed and basically tell the victim ................ errrrrrrrrrrrrr, customer that the ECU has failed and the car needs to be scrapped.

The K-Jetronic system is devoid of electronics (except the ignition which is separate) unless as explained above, it has a Lambda sensor and cat on it. :eek:

Properly set up, it's as good as the comparable EFi system and on my previous 740GLEs (K-Jet) i've often heard the MoT tester mutter something along the lines of "I can't see a cat but it must have one somewhere to be that clean!" while doing the emissions test.
None of my real Volvos have had a cat on thankfully (wouldn't have bought them if they had! :nah: ) so my advice (FWIW) to the OP if he wants a 240 for touring is go for a post 86 240GLE with K-Jet and 4-speed (4th is overdrive) auto box which will bring the benefits of electronic ignition, depending on which model exactly it is also likely to have PAS, electric windows and perhaps central locking plus maybe a few other modern touches without getting into the realms of the early EFi stuff that had a couple of troublesome years around 1990-92 on the 240, 740 and 940 with ECU problems being more common on those years than any other time.

I don't think that I would be quite so quick to dismiss a 245 as a viable touring car. True, a heavily laden 2.0 auto may struggle a little when mixing it with modern machinery on the Autobahns and Autoroutes, but all variants should be fine on 'ordinary' roads. Although we do prefer autos, our '83 2.3 MOD GLT was a near perfect car for this purpose.

We have toured extensively in Scandinavia and Northern Europe, in period, in 1, 2 and 7 series cars and all were well capable of the task. Other than to quickly reach a specific destination, we eschewed major roads, using instead more minor routes in order to better appreciate the area that we were visiting.

In Sweden, not unnaturally, the 245 is in it's element. Distances between towns are such that a comfortable cruising speed of 90 Km/H can be maintained almost indefinitely, resulting in a car that averaged 23 MPG at home returning 30+ on it's home turf.

If 'venomtail' is in fact already considering sourcing a car in mainland Europe, I would suggest that he looks closely at Sweden as well. Prices for 'running restoration' project cars do not yet appear there to have reached the levels that they now command in the UK. I have no idea, however, regarding the ease or cost of bringing one to the UK, which would obviously have to be added to the purchase cost. As noted earlier by Alan, the practicalities of such a venture would merit very careful consideration before proceeding.

On a purely practical note, we found the 60/40 split rear seat of the 7 series cars an incredibly useful improvement over the arrangement on the 2 series. That is not to take anything away from the 2 series, but it does make the 7 a much more versatile car, particularly on tour!

Regards, John.

They don't salt the roads in Northern Sweden as it's too cold for salt to melt the ice and snow. If you can find a car from the great frozen North, it would be better. They do come up for sale. Rob from Amazon Cars in Suffolk brought a beige 144 over from Northern Sweden. It looked to be rust-free when I saw it. He drove it to South Africa.

Perhaps Venomtail should place a wanted ad in the Luleå Gazette and Chronicle:

Wanted: Volvo 245 1974-79, must be in really good condition and capable of long touring journeys across Europe. Pay up to 10,000 SEK. Call Venomtail on 0044-7XXXXXXXXX.

This has been a good discussion, unfortunately the only person missing from it has been Venontail - I do so hope we will see him/her again...

:-)

Agreed, Alan. It's really strange and frustrating when people start the ball rolling and then appear to quickly lose interest and vanish off into the ether.

Although you perhaps intended it as 'tongue in cheek', I like the idea of an ad in a Swedish paper. English is widely spoken in Sweden and finding a car at £1,000 (give or take) should not be beyond the realms of possibility. It would undoubtedly require work, but 'Venomtail' did indicate that he was looking for a project, but it would hopefully be relatively rust-free.

There is also a magazine which circulates in Sweden called Nostalgia (www.nostalgiamagazine.se) that covers cars, along with bikes, boats, planes, etc., and which has a very comprehensive advertisement section which would offer much wider coverage than would a local newspaper

The only downsides of this will be that the car would be a left-hooker, although that didn't seem to phase 'Venomtail', along with the difficulty and cost of bringing it to the UK. At that price-point, my guess is that it could easily double the cost of the car!

Nevertheless, as you say, an interesting discussion.

Regards, John.

There is also a Swedish version of ebay, the name escapes me at the moment and that often has car parts and i believe cars on it too. I bought the oil cooler for my 760 from it with the help of a member of the Rover forum (a native Swede and he doesn't like Volvos! :err: ) so if the OP/Venomtail is interested, i can ask for details of that site to have a look and see what is available.

John, i think he actually wanted a car with the handlebars on the wrong side as it seems he plans on using it to tour Europe. If so then a car from Sweden would be a good choice.

Are you thinking of Tradera, 'L.S.'? J.

Yes indeed, John - it seems to happen quite often that someone comes to the forum for advice or assistance on some matter, half a dozen well meaning members chip in to develop a good answer, only for the OP never to be seen or heard of again.

I do hope I'm wrong about Venomtail - but I have a feeling...

Alan

PS. Whilst it was meant to be amusing, the idea of an ad in a Swedish paper or magazine (online) was not entirely a joke, it would make great sense.

I found this one on Tradera John, but perhaps it s just a little rougher than Venomtail is looking for:

https://www.tradera.com/en/item/1001.../1947-volvo-pv

:-)

At the price, Alan, it would certainly be a useful source of spares for someone, if nothing more! J.

It might well have been John, i can't remember for sure now but Alans link below looks familiar in the format. :thumbs_up:




Have i lost the plot or was Venomtail looking for a 245? :thinking:

He was, but I think Alan may have been using this as a representative example of the type of thing that is available, and not indicative of a specific model. It does however tie in nicely with the other thread dealing with a PV that we have also all posted upon. :regular_smile: J.

In that case :

https://www.tradera.com/en/item/1001...o-245-85-b200k

https://www.tradera.com/en/item/1001...4603/volvo-945

A couple of possible out of the whole 29 Volvos i found listed on there. First is a rather tin-worm chewed 245 in need of a new drivers floorpan plus other electric-glue type repairs and the 945 doesn't seem that much better in all honesty although the tin-worm isn't so obvious.

Given the cost and evident rot on the 245, i'd suggest somewhere like Spain, Italy or similar would be better for a LHD model or find a half decent RHD in the UK (or maybe a LHD from someone who has done similar before) and not have to worry about the costs of repatriating it to the UK, subsequent registration costs and so on. That would pay for a lot of repairs/upgrades/improvements to get it how the OP wants it.

I'm not sure those prices are all that different from the UK are they? £500 for a rust bucket 245, £1200 for a rough 940. After trailering back to the UK, first registration and so on I really can't see there is any margin in importing a LHD car.

PS. This is becoming a sizeable thread that has been off on a few interesting tangents - it is a pity the OP has not stayed around to read it :-)

Exactly what i was thinking on both counts Alan, surprised he hasn't commented further on here, he was last on the forum on 29th April :

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/member.php?u=206732

Maybe he hasn't got his notifications set up to give instant email notification to threads he starts and/or is subscribed to?

... I don't do that either Dave: the RB thread would have filled my inbox a long time ago!

I have filters and folders set up Alan so the emails from the various fora i'm on go into the folders directly and i read them from there and leave them where they are for reference later. Keeps my Inbox clear (except for one forum i moderate on which i move on a daily basis from Inbox to the relevant folder) for other things.

Even deleting the notification emails once you've read the post would work and to help prevent that, this forum only sends notifications on the first reply to the thread until you revisit the thread.

Saves having to keep checking on the forum to see if there's been any replies, leaving you free to get on with other things. :thumbs-up:

That is a useful link Dave, I didn't know it was possible to look people up like that (one learns something new every day).

When I followed the link I noticed Venomtail had dropped in again yesterday, but not left a post. Maybe he/she has changed his mind about a 245? Maybe he/she didn't like the advice?

Alan

He/she has problems with a later Volvo misfiring on one cylinder Alan. Couldn't think why the screen name was familiar.

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=304430

I think those problems are the main focus at the moment.

Ah. I hope he/she comes back to have a look at 240s.

Time will tell! They are at least more reliable than the modern stuff! :thumbs_up:

And far less complex to sort out if ever they do go wrong ... :regular_smile: J.

Not to mention the fact that 240s have character unlike the soul-less Euroblobs from 2000 onwards................ :thumbs-up:

John that is very true. :tr-yes:

These forums do however witness that when 240s go wrong diagnosis can be a long trail. The idea that these cars are easy olde things is wrong. That is mainly why it becomes difficult to choose a garage to work on these cars. They don't have the relevant training and experience.

It reminds me of plumbing. A plumber (engaged by mistake as a distress purchase) gives up re a stop tap installed in 1914. A traditional chap re-packs the olde stop tap and departs having asked for a modest payment, We paid him more.


P.S.

The usual name for a stop tap appeared to be censored by forum software .... oops.

Perhaps stop coq ... :tr-wink:

Stephen.

.

Substitute a zero fot the letter o in c0ck and the forum software doesn't stop it.

Indeed so.

But a q for ck makes the point, a little eloquently, perhaps.

:tr-smile:

Stephen

.

As in coq au vin, n'est-ce pas?! J.

Whichever floats your boat unless you happen to be "on the Coq" aka the Coquihalla Highway and then it's pronounced "coke".

It's a problem with American derived profanity blocking software as many of the words that we find "offensive" are not to them and vice versa.
There are many examples i could cite but firstly that's not the purpose of this thread and secondly this one is probably the most fruitless of the censorship it creates as there are so many words in our version of English that use this word such as pea-, shuttle-, stop-, -erel (known as a rooster stateside), -tail and so the list goes on.

Oh, I don't know, 'L.S.', most threads digress to a greater or lesser extent, so why should this one be any different? :regular_smile:

Anyway, as you've thrown down the gauntlet... What about --a-hoop, -pit, -apoo, -atoo - how many more can we find? We need something to brighten up a cold and wet B H Monday when we aren't either driving or fettling our respective Volvos!

Regards, John.

Good point John! :laughing-smiley-003

No gauntlets were intended to be harmed and to be honest, my mind has gone blank now. Didn't manage to drive, fettle or anything else on my Volvo today, weather was more like early winter than late spring! :rolleyes:

Yes exactly so :tr-yes:

Thank you John.

Stephen

.

Oh wow, I've missed loads, thought the thread went quiet at the end of April. Only now I've received a notification in my email saying that there's one new reply. Hasn't updated me in the last few days, even when I've set the thread subscription as "instant email."

I think the logical decition would be to go with a newer version but with all respect, they're not the lookers. There's only so many rectangles I can handle, need a few circles as well :tounge_smile:

Been looking at places like Scandinavia and Finland, even Spain and Italy where there were what looked like completely rust free 240's being sold.