1972 pv1800es
 

I posted this in the 'Sales' area, but meant for it to be here, so what follows is a copy.

A friend of mine has just purchased a 1972 P1800ES, I've offered to help her collect it some time next week. It looks nice enough, this car:

https://i.imgur.com/nonxquAh.jpg

... the car is advertised as having had a bare metal respray and being mechanically good. As long as the car is as described she is committed to the purchase, so we'll just be checking it is indeed as described.

I notice from the MoT history that its last test was in 2006, and then it failed needed considerable welding to repair rust. This must have been fixed - and it will be a trivial matter to make sure it has been. I don't know anything about these cars, is there anything more I should look out for?

Alan

The high cost repairs on an 1800 are the body sheet metal repairs. The 1800 has a bit of a reputation as sections of rust held together with steel. If the body repair has been properly addressed then most other issues can be addressed at a reasonable cost.

Be aware that an original 1800ES will be equipped with a D jetronic electronic fuel injection system. There is nothing wrong with that, the system works well. However, the number of shops that have the knowledge to diagnose and fix an ailing D jet system are limited. If the owner can't diagnose and repair themselves, they may want to do a little searching around ahead of time to determine if there are accessible shops that can do the work for them should they need the service.

If a true bare metal respray and panel repair project was carried out it would be common for photographs to be taken during the restoration process as evidence. Ask for any photo documentation of the restoration process to satisfy yourself that proper repairs were carried out. If there are no photos, then I would do a little Google searching to make up a list of the many common 1800 rust spots. Then, armed with that list, a magnet (to detect bondo patches) and something pokey to test the soundness of metal do your own inspection. Or, make the purchase conditional on a pre purchase inspection by a specialist knowledgeable in the 1800.

If the last MoT was 2006, does that mean that the car has not been road worthy since 2006? Is the car currently driveable and registrable? If you can't test drive it, that would be deal breaker for unless the seller priced it appropriately.

Thank you so much.

I understand the car has been registered as an historic vehicle for some years and so will not have needed a MoT test. I believe it is in good driving condition (such is the seller’s claim). This is the seller’s ad (in italics):

1972 Volvo 1800es 2ltr engine manual gearbox
This is a low mileage same number car.
I purchased the car 4yrs ago from its third owner who had kept the car for many years.
The car has undergone a bare metal body repair and repaint and looks amazing. Lots of new parts have also been fitted.
Since having all the repairs, the car had sat in my garage. Unused and no time to use it.
It runs and drives really well, the overdrive works without fault.
The interior is completely original and looks great, showing some wear but nothing that I would replace. The car retains that classic car interior smell which is a joy to sit in.
Any inspection is welcomed and recommended


... so that is what I’ll be checking for my friend (the buyer). I have not spoken with the seller myself, but my friend has, and she seems confident of the ad’s veracity.

Fingers crossed!

I've never owned a p1800 so I can't really help.

I will say, however, based on my experience of my PV544 is that Volvo of that time made some very handsome shapes in sheet metal with subtle forms.

My PV had been "repainted" to such an extent that the subtle shapes of the body had been obliterated by body filler. There is a tendency (I'm sorry to report) for people to slap on body filler with wild abundance...

...make sure your friend is buying something with out a whole load of make up!

I would take a magnet to identify potential problem areas - though I can understand that a seller might not be so impressed with that approach. A professional paint thickness gauge would be good.

A re-painted car is one of my warning signs - unless it has been done years and years ago. Photo's as mentioned above can help but it is a bit of a gamble as the first time something gets wet is more often than not the first time when something starts to bubble through...

There's a stripped 1800 coupe on e-bay at the moment. If you have a good look at the photos, it will give you a good indication of where they rust, plus the top of the front wings behind the wheel arch, and below the rear hatch on the ES, and underneath, of course. Good luck.

Bleifrei?
 

Will a 1972 P1800 run on bleifrei, or will I need to get some fuel additive?

Had to look up bleifrei. I presume its referring to unleaded gasoline? An unmodified B20E or F will run on unleaded petrol with a RON of around 100. However, it will incur gradual recession of the exhaust valves into the exhaust valve seats. This is a slow process so it will depend on how much the car has been driven with unleaded fuel.

When B20 engines have valve work done on them hardened exhaust seats can be installed in the head to eliminate the problem. If the car is driven infrequently the owner may elect not to bother with the cost of having hardened seats installed. You could ask if the engine has had major service work done on it and if so, were hardened exhaust seats installed as part of that service.

Without knowing the nature of your friend's conversation with the seller, I would be less trusting of the adds veracity. If the claims are factual then it should be relatively easy for the seller to provide invoices documenting the work done or photographic evidence. When you outsource significant long term restoration work it is common for the shops to provide photographic evidence of progress as part of the request for interim payment. If there are no shop invoices or photographs of the restoration work then I would be assiduous in terms of my physical inspection of the car. If you can't do your own body and paint work, having to outsource a major sheet metal repair and body repaint could easily exceed $ 30,000 Cdn.

Super duper.

Yes indeed, bleifrei = unleaded gas. Thank you for your explanation, I had a feeling the B20 motor would run on such.

My friend is in dialogue with the seller, the detail is up to her - my part in this enterprise is make sure the car is as described and to drive it back (about 60 miles I should think).

I have a good feeling about this car - I’m looking forward to seeing and driving it.

Alan

If it's as good as it looks Alan, it should be a very nice car. As 142Guy indicated, you'll need to tell your friend to use 98 octane aka BP Ultimate, Shell Super V-Power etc. Sadly we don't get 100 octane any more but that if memory serves was 5 star fuel.

A Lead Replacement Additive added to the fuel on fill up (ideally just before filling so the petrol mixes with it as it goes in) will help to combat VSR but eventually your friend may want to have hardened valve seats fitted.

I'm guessing you're going to get a temporary insurance cover to drive it back for her? Also that she's insuring it on a classic policy?

Many classic policies actively prohibit other people with "Driving a vehicle not owned by them" type insurance policies from driving the insured car - both of mine have that codecile in the policy wording.
Do your own checking to ensure that you are in fact covered to drive the car, after all it's your licence on the line (usually a minimum of 8 points for no insurance) and her car that could be siezed if there are any anomalies you've overlooked.

Other than that, it should be a nice day out for the pair of you and another nice Volvo to the mix! :thumbs_up:

It does seem like a genuine car from what I can tell ( but I'm only getting the information third hand). I'll take my 3t jack and a magnet of a stick with me.

The plan is to drive up and collect on Thursday. My friend has added me to her insurance cover as a named driver.

I'm quite looking forward to seeing the car, if it is as good as it seems in the photos it should be fine. I'll encourage my friend to contribute to the forum afterwards, it would be nice to have another member with an interesting car.

A slight aside but this one is in perfect condition and uses less fuel!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233204230662

This one on the other hand needs slight restoration :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393244600421

The Coupe version as you've hinted somewhat about maybe another project.........

Should have enough cool factor for Dan as well, especially as there was a TV Series that used one with Roger Moore! :thumbs_up:

That first one is fantastic! Over £100 for a model is a bit steep for this tightwad though Dave.

I'd noticed that second one. As far as I know my friend paid considerably less than that for the blue car - and it certainly looks more complete (no brakes!).

We'll see on Thursday :-)

I've noticed the price of models has shot up recently Alan, one i've been after for a long time was hovering around the £30-40 point but is now about 30 times that! :err:
I was waiting for favourable exchange rates to bring the price below £30 so won't be buying it anytime soon at ~£900 though!

As for the second one, probably the going rate (maybe a tad steep) so your friend got a good deal on the blue one i found in Completed Listings. As long as the blue one is all it's stacked up to be, a definite bargain!

I hope so Dave, my friend tells me the seller appears to be a decent gent. I have a good feeling about the car, and if my friend hadn’t been bidding myself I might have bought it myself at £11,200.

It looks a nice car and i share the feeling, might be a few bits to sort out but nothing major. If memory serves the overdrive only works on 4th and apparently pushing the clutch about halfway down when engaging/disengaging the OD is recommended from what i remember of my 145 handbook (same box/overdrive i think) to help ease the "shock" as it engages/disengages.

If i had the money/time/space etc i'd probably go after the gold one but would have to convert it to auto. As i have none of those things it's still fair game! Apparently really nice ones can hit about £30k.................................

My friend had been looking for a P1800 for some time (she drives a modern Volvo D-somethingorother). I saw that one in an auction the other day with just a few hours to go and sent her a link. I’m really pleased that she got the car (and for what appears to be a very sharp price - I’d told her it would still be cheap at £12,500 and okay at £15,000 prior to her bidding).

It is no secret that the sale price was only £11,200 (I’d have probably bought it myself at that price if my friend had not wanted it) - and I think it looks like a really nice car. If the seller is genuine (and my friend says he appears to be so) then the car will suit her down to the ground. I’ve suggested my friend might put aside a recommissioning fund of £2,000 (parts only, I’m happy to work on the car gratis) to cover anything unexpected - and maybe a few subtle improvements.

I understand (this is third hand) that the car has been locked away in a garage this past two years, but it has been started every month and the seller took it for a couple of miles drive last week - he does not report any issues. He says the tyres are good and will check fluids and air before Thursday. I’m thinking a bit of a drive back will do it good, it would be about an hour and a half back from Stoke. It would be a good idea to avoid motorways I think - and I’ll bring my rigid tow bar just in case!

I can’t see a radio in the car (from the photos). If there isn’’t one discretely hidden away then I’m thinking it would be a pity to spoil the interior now; it might be a better idea to fit a powered Bluetooth speaker so my friend can just link her cell phone to it. What do you think?

I’m looking forward to Thursday, and I really hope the motor car is as described. I rather hope that I might get to work on it in the same way that I do the RB, and perhaps even drive the P1800 from time to time.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/hmkAA...jU/s-l1600.jpg

It looks like there is something missing in the centre console Alan and (after enlarging the photo to 500% (which makes it a smidge blurry) it looks like it might be a slot for a spindle mount radio. If so, this would be a good choice to fill it :

https://www.classiccarstereo.co.uk/c...unt-dab-radio/

Not necessarily the cheapest unit but has BT streaming, handsfree calling from phone and many other useful features and wouldn't look too out of place down in the centre console. Also a decent power output and ISO connectors.

Recommissioning/improvements are definitely a good idea and i would suggest a full service too. If i remember which thread it was on, someone posted the link to an online manual for it that covers the D-Jetronic injection. There are also 4 Haynes manuals on fleabay for it as well :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...aynes&_sacat=0

From a time when Haynes produced proper workshop manuals and not Mickey Mouse ones with silly-spanner ratings! :thumbs_up:

You may be right about the retro radio being missing Dave; that is a very nice unit you have suggested to fill the gap, but if it was my car (and it is not) I’d try this similarish one for £14:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bluetooth....m46890.l49286

If my friend wants a £270 radio fitted that is okay, if she wants the £14 one I’m happy to fit that as well.

The link to a manual would be handy; I’ve sent the link for a new Haynes manual on to my friend.

Here’s the link for the Djet

https://volvo1800pictures.com/docume...lt_tracing.pdf

That cover plate left of the clock on the dash, is where a spindle mount radio would go. Those “radio delete plates” are like hens teeth, sought after by concours restorers, could be sold for a lot to help cover the cost of a modernized radio period correct looking radio.

I have one of those Classic Car radios, works quite well.

Wonderful. Many thanks, I will pass that on.
Alan

... it is not my car, but in that case I think the best thing would be to leave the radio delete plate in place and fit a discrete Bluetooth speaker like Ed China did to a Sunbeam Apline in this episode of WD:

https://www.topgearbox.com/cars/ente...unbeam-alpine/

Hey Othen - are you (like me) easily distracted?

Have your PV544 ownership dreams died a death?

I've just been waylaid by a few other projects: my son and I decided that we would extend our house (rather than move) so I've been surveying and preparing drawings, plus then my friend bought this P1800 - so you might say life has got in the way.

I haven't found time to drive to Portsmouth (300 mile round trip) to look at that PV544 yet - so that is still on the back burner (but I would not say it is shelved yet).

:-)

Oh dear that sounds like multi-tasking...

I am also the owner of a Volvo 1800ES and recall seeing this blue one from Stoke on Trent area for sale several times on Ebay in recent times, presumably it never reached a sensible price until now?

Whilst I have no knowledge or ever seen this Volvo I did, I think, once meet the owner/seller a few years ago on the Volvo Owners Club stand at the NEC Classic Car Show when displaying my own ES there (see photo). I had quite a long conversation with him about how he found the car locked away in storage for many years, bought it and carried out the restoration. I recall him saying that a lot of welding and bodywork was done as well as mechanical work. I think the main topic of conversation was how to refit the long side windows from memory.

My recollection is that he'd spent a lot of time and money on the car, including many new parts from a Volvo dealer close to his home. Quite why he is now selling it I don't know, but it does seem to be a good buy on the face of his adverts. He certainly seemed a genuine chap so I hope the purchase goes smoothly for your friend and that you enjoy driving the car home.

Paul

That is so helpful Paul, thank you very much.

What you have said about the seller strongly supports my friend's opinion of the seller - he seems to be a decent chap. The story about spending good money on welding and decorating tallies exactly with my friend's account, but it is very useful indeed for it to be corroborated independently.

I have had no dealings with the seller myself, but I'm really looking forward to seeing the car and driving it back this week. If my friend agrees I'll post some photos and words then.

Best wishes,

Alan

PS. Your car looks absolutely first class.

P1800 Manuals and Documents
 

I rather suppose all P1800 owners already know about these online documents:

https://volvo1800pictures.com/sweden...in_page_en.php

What a fantastic resource they are :-)

Although it is not even my car, I'm really excited about collecting the P1800ES for my friend tomorrow.

Alan

It’s excellent. Another ok online source; https://ozvolvo.org/archive/

Wow what an awesome thread, I have nothing to do with any of it and even I'm getting excited for all involved!

I think I need to get out a bit more!

Good luck and if the purchase is actually made the a decent length drive back is also a good indication of the cars condition from a mechanical prospective at least, I bought my Amazon back in December and drove it 3.5 hours home on a car that had been stood for about 2 years albeit being fired-up and moved once back in May last year, it was great!

Doug.

Thank you for that vote of confidence Doug. We did consider renting a car trailer and bringing the car back that way (it is about 80 miles), but like you I concluded it would be better to give the car a run out after 2 years in a garage.

This is all very exciting, I've made up a box of stuff we might need: some tools, a magnet on a stick, 2t jack and a block of wood, a towing bar, a torch... and planned a route back avoiding motorways (A50/A6 - easy). My friend (we'll call her Janet - not her name but she can decide whether or not to introduce herself to the forum later) has arranged the insurance and breakdown cover. Bob (my dog) is coming along for the day out as well.

I can't wait - and it is not even my motor car!

Alan

Feeler guages and some emery cloth Alan! Take those too! :thumbs_up:

It's not uncommon for the points gap to suddenly close up on those older contact-breaker Bosch distributors, also there are two extra sets of points purely for the D-Jetronic injection buried further into the dizzy - worth double-checking you know the gaps for them and the normal points just to get you home if they are dirty/closed up. Shouldn't be and if it's running ok, leave well alone until it's repatriated to its home and/or your place where it can be worked on without compromising anyones ability to get home.

Should all be fine though, hope you have good weather for it and enjoy the return journey!

Ah, good thinking! I'd completely forgotten about CB points. I should have feeler gauges and Emery cloth in my tool box (but I'll check!).

I'm planning to bring the car back to my house (where I have room, cover, tools and so on) - and have set aside Friday to fix anything that comes to light on the drive back.

I have a good feeling about this car.

PS. I've just noticed I made a mistake in the title of this thread, I wrote pv1800 rather than P1800 - no matter, I quite like to things that have unimportant flaws (like the RB).

Alan, may I sound a note of caution? I don't know if you are aware but the A50 is basically a two lane motorway with no hard shoulder. I have worked in Stoke and travelled that way daily. You might be better advised by avoiding it altogether and driving across country on more minor roads. At least time your journey to avoid peak periods. The stretch where the A50 approaches the M1 at Kegworth can get very busy indeed.

Regards, John.

Careful with those Djet trigger points in the base of the distributor. Not subject to arcing and pitting. No emery cloth or the like for them. They don’t wear out like ignition points due to the low voltage. A simple swipe through with paper/thin cardboard is all that is required to clean them.

Good luck on your journey.

“ that the car has been locked away in a garage this past two years, but it has been started every month and the seller took it for a couple of miles drive last week”

Starting a car periodically and letting it run for a few minutes is counterproductive. Engines need to get to full operating temp to burn off moisture. This combined with acids from combustion is one of the contributors to sludge. Suggest you get an oil change before your journey home.

Thanks for clarifying that - my earlier post didn't make it clear :nah: (although that was what i intended! :rolleyes: ) that the lower D-Jet trigger points require barely any maintenance and only really need checking in the event of a complete dizzy stripdown/rebuild and/or catastrophic failure.

The main point was to remind Alan it is almost certainly going to have contact breaker ignition so if any problems are experienced they may be the cause.

That said, if it hasn't been run for longer runs, it's possible that D-Jet points may have oxidised too and low current won't clean that oxidisation in normal running........ :thumbs_up:

... I was thinking that if I change the oil in the McDonald's car park I could put the car over the cooking oil trap and so save taking a catch can with me :-)

I think we'll have to take a chance on that one... I'll change the oil on Friday (if the filter is here by then).

:teeth_smile:

Thank you for that chaps. I'm guessing from your comments that the points are not the same as on the B20A motor, and so this electronic ignition kit would not fit:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180632462...97.m4902.l9144

... electronic ignition would be a sensible improvement.

I think the ignition points are the same Alan so you'd probably be ok with that. You'll have to have a good look once it's in your workshop! :thumbs_up:

Unfotunately the points are different for single carb engines which the B20A is, so the electronic ignition kit will be as well. The B20B has the same points, so the same aftermarket electronic ignition kit should fit.