Winter wheels & tyres vs all season?
 

Good afternoon all. We’ve seen many variations of this thread, but seeing as autumn is progressing it’ll be relevant again soon.

I’ve personally always been a fan of separate summer and winter tyres, but probably because I originally come from Bavaria and in the past all-season tyres were a compromise. These days, all-season may well be genuinely all-season and unless you like a summer track-day or winter ski trip, possibly a good choice to make. But I do find them a little more expensive and I don’t tend to get the same life out of them in terms of wear. I also drive defensively and within the law, so don’t need the extremes of handling.

I currently have summer tyres on my original 18” alloys on the XC-60, two original Conti’s and two budgets that came with the car (the garage gave me the cash for two new Conti’s, but I decided to use the budgets for a couple of summers first so still have £375 in a tin for the next tyres). The original Conti’s are now showing very mild cracking around the text on the sidewalls and at 4.5 years old may last another summer before needing replacement. The budgets are fine on the front and I’ve had no issues with grip or ride.

I have winter Michelin Latitude Alpines on 17” original Volvo alloys, in really good condition but now down to around 4mm tread and getting on a bit in terms of age. Given my annual miles currently, these would see me through this winter at least. They’ll probably need changing due to age rather than wear. I really do like the more comfortable ride on the 17” wheels though.

So…. Do I see out another year on these, then change the winters next autumn at £120 per corner and the summers the spring after at £110 per corner? Or do I go for crossclimates in the autumn at £145 per corner and sell the 17” alloys?

I’ve noticed that used winters and alloys have plummeted on the second hand market. Only a few years ago, they were £450-600ish but now seem to go around £150-250ish. (People often ask more, but they don’t seem to sell.)

Like footwear, it's really down to your personal preference, budget and needs so there's not really a correct answer here, just a lot of opinions... mostly conflicting at best. At 4mm however, I'm not sure I'd be deeming them acceptable to run through another winter... but again, depends on your mileage, the conditions and such like.

I run all seasons all year... mainly because I'm not that bothered about pin sharp handling (it's an XC70) and also because I can't be bothered swapping over, more so as up here the weather is so unpredictable and changeable that I'd be swapping them over with about 2hrs notice. I've not found all seasons (Vredestein Quatrac / Crossclimates) to be lacking at any stage, but again that's based on my personal circumstances and needs... you're may be very different and thus maybe swapping suits you better.

Your call really but the internet is awash with reviews and opinions on the subject, most of which I found to be a hinder rather than a help a lot of the time.

Modern top flight all season tyres really are very good, and the best of them are also 3 peaks snow rated too.

Back home in Northern Alberta would swap tyres, but over here the all weather tyres are ideally suited to the job.

It all depends really where the needle sits on your personal scale of compromise. Having said that, coming from a climate of greater extremes than here as I do, I think its difficult to justify the expense and effort.

But it's your call.

I've used Cross Climates and Hankook Kinergy 4S2's on our XC90s with good results. Theoretically they may lose a percentage point or two in the extremes handling in hot weather, but thats well beyond the limits of the XC's handling anway. In normal conditions they're easily as good as the OE Pirellis, in the wet and cold they're miles ahead, particularly the Hankooks. They've also proven capable in what passes for snow here, whereas the Pirelli's would have just rolled on their backs and surrendered.

I run summers all year long. Snow? What's that?

This - and because you & I are darn sarf, then a more road-oriented AS like the Hankooks are perfect. If I was up in Scotlandcestershire then I'd choose an AS which was more down the snow end of the spectrum. Mytyres tests are really good in helping to choose what works.

On winter tyres they regarded as "spent" when the tread drops below 4mm and many of them have additional tread wear indicators that indicate 4mm. However between 3 and 4mm they will still probably be much better than summers of any tread depth.

All seasons tyres have come on a lot in recent years and as has been said there are a number that carry the 3PMS symbol which effectively means they are classed as winter tyres.

Michelin Cross Climates are an example and get very good feedback from almost everyone on here who uses them. Vredestein Quatrac would be another.

I personally run winter tyres all year round on all my vehicles (Cooper Discover Winter on my XC60, Cooper WeatherMaster WSC on my Ford Ranger). We don't get snow that often but when we did earlier this year I quite enjoyed overtaking my colleague on the hill up to work who was in his Defender with Goodyear Wrangler on it. It's not just that I could pass him - I left him standing whilst having full control with no wheelspin or drama whatsoever. The small penalty in MPG would not be recovered by changing tyres twice a year.

The trend I seem to be seeing is more and more people just going for all-season tyres all year round. Comments in this thread and previously suggest this is mainly as all-seasons have improved significantly in recent years, but also the convenience of not having to change them.

Other factors I can see are the recent tread for wider wheels and lower profiles, which certainly increase the cost of a winter set. I’m pretty sure my winters for my Cortina cost me £20 for four decent steelies from a scrappy (including the chrome trims) and around £25 a corner for the tyres. A new set of winters and alloys can be anywhere upwards from £1500 these days.

Having already a set of spare alloys, in a wheel size an inch smaller than the summer ones, it’s only the cost of the tyres and with two sets they’ll last for years with me. The inch smaller means slightly less chance of alloy damage if I do nudge a kerb in the snow. Worst case, I can pick up another matching Volvo 17” alloy on ebay from under £40 rather than risking my decent ones in the winter.

Two last reasons for possibly sticking with the winters and summers (I’d appreciate your views).

1. I don’t do much mileage anymore as working from home. My wife is a community nurse though and absolutely must reach her patients regardless of weather. In the worst of the snow, I take a day or two off and ferry her around. I find full on winter tyres get me around when I need it. Is there much noticeable difference between winters and all-seasons on the white stuff?

2. I use the opportunity when changing the wheels over to drop the wheel arch liners, washing and waxing the arches behind. I thoroughly check suspension and brakes, doing the brake fluid replacement then if needed. It takes a couple of hours, but I know this will easily last until the next wheel swap in roughly 6 months. I also thoroughly wash and wax the wheels I take off before storing on my wheel tree in the garage. The wheels going on get a brush of copper grease before they go on and the wheel nuts get torqued. This point probably serves to satisfy my OCD more than necessity, but it keeps me happy. Anyone else concur, or is it just me?

Again, so many variables... you can't compare "winters" and "All seasons" as a crap winter may be out performed by a good all season and via versa. You'd need to get granular and compare X winter tyre to Y all season tyre in back to back tests.

Winters are good in snow but being honest, I've run Dunlop Ultragrip 8 and also Nokian WR4 up here in Central Scotland so hardly the Alps... and I wasn't impressed by either and felt the marginal improvement on fresh snow was quickly negated by their rather uninspiring performance in frosty, icy or worse still, damp conditions. In fact in the latter I think both were crap.

I've run Vredsetein Quatrac 5 in all conditions, 10" of snow and a wet, cold lap of the Ring and felt they outclassed the above winter tyres in every sense. I've currently got Vredestein Quatrac Pro on one car, Cross Climates on the other and again have driven all year round, snow included and my conclusion is I wouldn't buy Cross Climates again as I find their lateral grip in snow or slush a bit lacking, they let go before the Quatracs do but granted, are marginally better in dry, warm weather.

Being fair, I think most of us would struggle to note significant differences between the top five summer, winter or all season tyres in the real world but we'd notice how bad summers are in the winter weather and how bad winters are in the summer. So yes, swapping between both makes sense if you want to eek out that last morsel of performance at the extreme ends of the scales but I don't and nor does swapping / storing wheels appeal, hence, all seasons.

...but winters are a lot less bad in summer than summers are in (proper) winter weather, of course!

...but for most people, most of the time, a good AS is simply 'fit and forget'

Agreed, a winter tyre in summer will probably just feel vague and wear very quickly whereas a summer in proper winter can become dangerous and undrivable very quickly..