New 240 suspension/engine advice
 

Hi I have just purchased a 1980 Volvo 244DL which was advertised locally.

I have been looking for a couple years now so had to buy when it popped up.

Im currently at university and blown all my money on the new Volvo.
Im planning long term to save up and eventually swap the engine, gearbox , add Coilover's etc.


For the time being I want to do a couple slightly cheaper and smaller jobs.

Starting with lowering slightly. On lowering springs alone how much can be dropped before clearance issues? (bearing in mind I live in London)

With the engine what are the most cost effective power gains. I have been looking at different cams. Is there a specific one for street driving and getting a bit more low end torque people would recommend? As well as carb , exhaust, intake changes etc.

Cheers in advance
Olly
https://i.ibb.co/LQYk3Ss/IMG-4583.jpg

Hi,

Welcome to 240 ownership and the forum, great car choice ;)

You can lower a 240 cheaply and easily with 40mm lowering springs without running into any issues with either suspension geometry or scraping speed bumps. Depending on where you are in London a friend has almost exactly the same car as you with 40mm lowering springs fitted, which you might want to have a look at.

Engine/power wise, you’re probably best off making sure everything is working properly as a start- the cam is probably an A cam, so not much scope to improve there- a V cam has slightly more lift but not enough to make much difference. You might find a k or h cam if you’re lucky. A Weber carb kit does exist, although tuning a n/a car costs quite a lot for the power gained. Obviously I’m going to say turbo swap it…

Throw out any questions you have, there’s a lot of knowledge on this forum and someone will know the answer to anything you ask….

Cheers

Engine swop
 

My best tune up was fitting a 2.3 litre (2326cc which it was designed for) engine. The 2 ltr 1986cc is under powered and only used as a UK tax break.
The used 2.3 cost £265 plus fitting. That was 350k miles ago.

BrianH 245 GL 1989 LPG 800K from new. Best car I ever had. Bomb proof!! Keep that oil Clean.

Welcome to the forum - this is a really good place.

Super duper, that car looks really nice (my 244, the Royal Barge, is a 1980 GL auto - very similar to your motor car).

I’d agree with Bugjam, the first thing to do is make sure what you have is running properly. Your motor will probably be a B21a 2.1, they are really simple cars and very easy to work on.

Alan

Suspension wise a set of 40mm lowering springs and new dampers will transform the car. I would also suggest replacing any worn bushes

Power wise I suspect you have a B21a.

You could convert to fuel injection or go DCOE's along with a cam etc


I would avoid spending twice if you can. If you want coilover get a decent set to start with, engine no point spending on mods that are only short term

Agreed. 2.3 red block is the way to go rather than trying to tart up existing

As it so happens I have a running 2.3 engine and manual gearbox for sale. £500 if it’s of use to you/ anyone. Engine is low mileage (only 130k) having had Volvo genuine timing belt/ tensioners done at 120k.

Have a video showing it running v good condition.

Rhys Faulkner
 

Engine/power wise, you’re probably best off making sure everything is working properly as a start- the cam is probably an A cam, so not much scope to improve there- a V cam has slightly more lift but not enough to make much difference. You might find a k or h cam if you’re lucky. A Weber carb kit does exist, although tuning a n/a car costs quite a lot for the power gained. Obviously I’m going to say turbo swap

Dr Car Polisher

There is not that much between a B21 and B230 really but the B21 is by far the stronger bottom end

Great thanks for this.

Yeah the engine in it only has 51k on it and no drivetrain noise, haven't got the car with me at uni so haven't had the chance to go over properly yet.

Turbo was the route I was looking to go down (building the motor separately on the side) . Ideally looking for 200-250bhp range with still a decent sense of reliability.

What is the best way to achieve this with still a bit of simplicity and not completely break the bank?

Great thanks for this.

Yeah the engine in it only has 51k on it and no drivetrain noise, haven't got the car with me at uni so haven't had the chance to go over properly yet.

Turbo was the route I was looking to go down (building the motor separately on the side) . Ideally looking for 200-250bhp range with still a decent sense of reliability.

What is the best way to achieve this with still a bit of simplicity and not completely break the bank?

Thanks for this.

Sadly going to take a bit of saving before buying one is on the cards.

Are they reasonably common to come across?

Here are a couple of threads that may be of interest:

I wrote this overview guide on how to turbo a 240 in the UK

Here is my turbo 240 project thread

Swapping to a turbo engine from a 940 is a simple and reliable engine swap and with a few modifications (bigger turbo, decent intercooler etc.) it will happily and reliably produce 200-250bhp.

Beware though, there isn't really a cheap way carrying out the swap - the cheapest way is to buy a complete 940 turbo car and break it, allowing you to recoup some or all of the costs, but that requires the space and time to do so. The alternative is buying a loose engine from someone but that will cost more. After the swap fuel costs and the cost of insurance will go up.

I'm not trying to put you off, just making sure you're aware of the costs involved. I priced up a swap for someone recently and we reckoned you could manage it for about a grand, but that's an approximate figure and would go down a bit if you break a 940 to recover some costs, you can weld and fabricate so you could make bits like the exhaust downpipe instead of buying them etc. etc.

Since you've just got the car one obvious approach would be to get it running well as it is, lower it, and then drive it a bit to make sure you like it before jumping into the swap.

Cheers

To be very candid Olly, you are not going to get many suspension and engine upgrades done if you budget is under £500.

Bugjam's advice is good: it would be a good idea to get the motor car running properly with its standard set up. Something else to beware of is that your motor car will be an appreciating classic in its original state, it is already an historic vehicle, which will only enhance its value. If you change the engine for a 2.3 litre, add FI, turbocharge it or lower the suspension you will certainly reduce its value. We have seen one or two warmed up 244s sell for a bit less than they might have made as standard motor cars recently.

It is up to you what you do with your motor car of course, but just be aware modifications will detract from its value (although that may not be important to you).

Good fortune with your project - publish some words and pictures for us to see as you progress - we like hearing about old Volvos :-)

Alan

PS. It might be worth having a look at this bit of a thread before ypou decide what you are going to do with your project Olly:

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showp...&postcount=929

... it is discussion we had a few weeks ago about a similar car to yours (and mine) that had been warmed up a bit: FI, lowered suspension and some very flash (and I thought inappropriate) wheels. From memory the owner had spent £6,000 on the modifications, plus the purchase price of the motor car, but it only made about £5,400 at auction. We concluded that 244s generally top out at about £6,000, and that there isn't much point warming up a DL model - it would be more sensible to buy a GLT in the first place.

Thanks my plan for the time being would be just to lower and get to know car a bit. Seen some chat about cut springs and saving the money for coilovers in future. But heard mixed reviews.

I got the car at a decent price so not overly concerned about depreciation. However I do still want to keep a fairly original look and keep parts. I want to wait till I have the money to do it right so swap will be future project.

No one here is going to say you are wrong about your project Olly, we are a pretty friendly and helpful bunch. If you need advice then there will almost always be someone that has come across the problem previously and will help.

I don't know anything about lowering cars, but I don't think it would be safe to cut springs - I think you would have to get a proper lowering kit - but I'm pretty certain someone far more knowledgeable than I will advise.

Good fortune,

Alan

Cheers for this, very helpful.

Sadly I dont have the space for a doner car but wouldn't be looking to start until a year or so down the line.

I think there's good advice on this thread about what happens to the value of a 240 if you modify it...

One option might be to fix it up as it is and try to get as much as you can for it as a factory spec car. You would then be a some way towards the purchase price of something actually designed to go fast and handle well in the first place. If you like boxy saloons, perhaps a skyline or similar. The early '80s ones are the coolest of them.

Yeah that was the idea a couple years ago. But I live in London so the age of the Volvo classes it as a classic and I can continue to drive a petrol car in ULEZ .

DW42's advice is really good, if you want a faster car then there are any number that will be much better than you could make a 244 DL, however much you spend on it.

This bit is not criticising your plan Olly: you live in London and I think you said you are a student (and you inferred you are on a very limited budget). In that case I cannot imagine why you would want to spend as much as the value of the motor car lowering and warming it up to then drive it in the ULEZ at 6 MPH.

I'm not judging your project, it is entirely up to you what you do with your 1980 244 DL.

A 240 does not need a lot doing to it for it to handle well and go fast.
Not that you can make much use of it in London

One thing you can do free-of-charge is check and maintain/adjust the tyre pressures. With a manual steering rack and 175/80/14s you'll find that the tyre pressures make a massive difference to the steering. Set them to the handbook recommendations as a starting-point and play around with them (+ or - 1psi at a time) until you find your personal "sweet spot".

These cars don't really need PAS until you go to 15" low-profile rubber.

Hi I do agree with this.

However I bought the 244 because I love the car and its styling.
I do live in London but Im based at uni in Nottingham and do a-lot of UK driving and Europe when possible .

The 244 is a long term project which I intend on keeping for a long time.
The low budget mods are just to make it look a little better and a bit more fun to drive in the meantime, whilst I save.

Hi Olly,

You are very much amongst link minded folk here, we all like 244/245/240s.

I'm guessing you are a young chap (apologies if you are a mature student - I just jumped to a likely conclusion) and so the cost of ownership will be paramount to you. In this respect you have probably done well with your 244 (except for fuel consumption, they aren't very good by modern standards). Your motor car is tax and MoT exempt, and will qualify for classic car insurance. The cost of maintaining a 40 year old Volvo is perhaps rather less than many historic cars: they are really simple, so working on 244s yourself saves money, and lots of parts are still available or may be substituted. 240s are big lumps, which means they would be hard work to make go fast (F=ma is against you when m is large) and hard to make handle well (F=mV^2/r when going round bends is also working against you when m is large); mass being large works for you when it comes to longevity and safety of course.

It is up to you of course, but I'd think carefully about trying to modify your nice 244DL to go fast, either in a straight line or around corners. You could spend a lot of money and detract from what seems to be a lovely motor car. Lowering the suspension could easily cost you £500 once you have replaced the dampers and a few bushes, and changing the motor would be something like a grand even if you do the work yourself. Even if you did both of those you would still have a heavy car with a high centre of mass and a live rear axle - one cannot fight the physics.

Taking a long term view of 244 ownership is a very good thing (in my opinion). Depreciation will be next to nothing, if you look after the motor car well it might even appreciate a bit after running costs. I'm with Bugjam in suggesting the first thing to do is make sure your 41 year old motor car is running at least as well as Mr Volvo intended it, after that there are some pretty low lost modifications that take advantage of 4 decades of technological improvements that you might consider. Electronic ignition is very good for reliability, headlamp bulbs are much better than they were, an electric fan is a really good idea (particularly for city driving) also alloy wheels with modern tyres can improve driving a great deal. It might be worth you skimming through the RB's project thread (my apologies, it does go in a bit) for some ideas on cheap fixes and improvements. I'll post you a link later on.

Be assured that everyone here welcomes you to the 244/245/240 family, and is delighted you have chosen to run one of our quirky old cars. There are lots of very knowledgeable folk here that are happy to help.

Good fortune,

Alan

PS. Here is a link to the RB's project thread, it does go on a bit but there is an index thread with almost the same title that helps finding things:

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=303259

PPS. Here is the link to the index thread:

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=314435

A symphony of brown!

Looks very tidy from that photo, good luck with it and keep us updated on your progress :)

Two very good places to read about your options are:
https://turbobricks.com/
and
https://ozvolvo.org/categories

On Oz Volvo scroll down to the Member Rides section, RWD. There are threads about turbo and V8 conversions. Australians (of which I am one now) particularly like to shoehorn LS1 V8s into the 240 engine bay. Not my dream, but my dream build is in an Oz Volvo thread -- Greg Seivert's electric 240 conversion. His was a few years ago now, and the achievable range has gone up since then.

We may all end up converting our old Volvos to EV one day:

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showp...postcount=1490

That article features a report on the conversion rules in Denmark, which effectively curtail all conversions there because of bureaucratic rules.

I presume there are no such rules in the UK - the converted car simply has to pass the appropriate MOT?

By then all 240s will be MOT-exempt. But does conversion to electricity count as a "fundamental change", on the grounds that electric power was not a standard original option when the car was new?

Hmmmmmmm, 250bhp and reliable? Lexus 1UZ 4.0 V8 from an early Lexus LS400 complete with auto box as it's near identical to the AW71 found in later Volvos.

Alternatively a B230FT from a 940 and and MBC.

In either case you'd need the loom from the donor car unless you went down the Emerald/Megasquit route.



Whatever you do, DO NOT CUT THE SPRINGS! :nah: :nah: :nah:

It's extremely dangerous, despite what the chumps who have done it "successfully" will tell you. Cutting them alters the way the metal is tempered because of localised heat, this can induce stress fractures and all kinds of other nasties - i'm not a metallurgist but the whole scenario was explained to me by one, complete with scientific facts, figures and other things. At the very best you will have two springs on an axle with different spring rates as a result and consequently unbalanced handling to start with.

Quickest, cheapest and easiest way is to either fit a new set of standard GLT springs (they're firmer than the rest of the range) or buy a set of lowering uprated springs - don't forget uprated dampers too. Fitting thicker anti-roll bars (called "sway bars" in some parts of the planet) will vastly improve the handling without compromising ride comfort or ground clearance - could be important with the amount of speed humps in that London!

Also if you make the suspension stiffer, don't forget to firm up your upholstery, it will become very uncomfortable when you're alternately hitting your head and jarring your back because of soft seats in a firmly sprung car.



Sadly we never got the R30 Skyline over here, only the C110 saloon and C210 Coupe and they're rarer than unicorn dung now.

My advice is pretty much along the lines of what you're suggesting and what most others have suggested, get it running right as standard with the worn parts and then do things piecemeal until it's at the point he wants it. Running it as standard will also pay dividends in replacement parts cost, no need to buy things that are near-enough custom made.

I think you must be correct about the UK not having the same level of bureaucratic red tape as Denmark. The Vintage Voltage TV programme has converted a number of historic cars to EV, but always glosses over this point.

It does seem that DVLA would be entitled to revoke the EV's historic registration. This would not affect the cost of road tax (EVs being zero rated) but the taxation class would be different, so the EV might need a MoT test every year. I'm not sure DVLA is sophisticated enough to realise any of this though, its workers' only interest seems to be processing as few cases as possible in an attempt to work from their kitchen tables forever (perhaps a far-sighted administration would outsource the DVLA's business to a contractor in Mumbai).

I suspect that in practice all that happens is that the DVLA changes the historic vehicle's fuel to electricity and everything else continues as normal.

Ho hum :-)

All good advice Dave, but I think this has been a thinking aloud exercise for Olly. He is just acquired an interesting car and is floating ideas about what he should do with it. From what he has told us, it would seem he does not have the cash to do any serious modifications, so the 250HP bit is just a pipe dream.

I think it is marvellous that a young chap (which I assume he is) at university likes the same motor cars as us old fogeys, and has taken the time to join this forum and float a few ideas (even if they sink quickly). I hope we will hear from Olly for years to come and that his 244DL becomes a fixture on our forum.

That was a very good point about not cutting suspension coils!

Alan

That was the impression i got Alan, floating ideas, looking for feedback on them and also others. My aim was to provide food for thought really, the 240 is quite an adaptable body shell so will take a wide variety of engines relatively easily. It was engineered to accept the PRV V6 which is a 90 degree Vee so will easily accept V8 engines but that said, it will also take the B230FT is he wants an all-out screamer-turbo jobby.

The worrying thing here is nobody (including me although i deliberately omitted it earlier) has mentioned brakes! Add extra grunt and extra brakes will be needed.

The other thing i didn't mention is fitting stiffer springs isn't all it's cracked up to be especially on a limited budget. Usually if you have to wait a long time to do something like that, by the time you can afford to do it, your body no longer appreciates the gesture! :err: :nah:

Also coil-overs, unless the car was orignally designed and fitted with them only really serve a useful purpose for track days to alter the ride height, rates and damping. I know someone who fitted a set of Koni front dampers and coil-overs on a Rover 800 which in fairness isn't that far removed from the original Chapman Strut, even on the softest setting (softer than the OE springs) the ride was crashy and harsh - in his words he "ruined it".
Fairly sure he said they were Koni, might have been Gaz thinking about it.

Also Tom down in the west country with his 740 hearse project has removed the coil-overs and found the ride is vastly improved.

I'm sure Olly appreciates all the advice, but unless he has a big win on the lotto this eve his university student loan isn't going to pay for FI, 2.3 litre engines, turbocharging, V8 engines, lowering springs, adjustable shock absorbers, bigger brakes or coil-over shock absorbers. He has probably realised by now that none of those things is going to happen soon, but he was excited about his new motor car (as I would be).

The consensus is that Olly should check the car over and make sure what he has is as good as it can be - once he finishes his degree, qualifies as a banker and is earning £250,000/year he can get the McLaren F1 engine, ceramic brakes and Ohlins suspension fitted (or just buy a better car).

It is good that we have Olly on board with the forum, and I look forward to hearing more about his 244DL.

:-)

Thanks everyone for the links and advice.

I am 20 studying mechanical engineering in Nottingham. As I mentioned I intend for this car to be a long term project.

Although it may not be the most cost effective route I imagine the direction of the car will change as I get older and my taste/ access to money changes.

Until insurance goes down the Volvo will be parked in the countryside with me going to work on it when possible and insuring a week or so at a time for some little UK trips.

Cut springs/lowering springs would not be for performance but instead to cheaply give the car a bit of stance and familiar myself with the Volvos suspension before moving to coil-overs. As the car wont be doing loads of miles in the meantime.

I have access to Uni workshops and a free basement which ideally over the next couple years as I get some money in can build an engine.

This thread is to get an idea of my options both short and long term.
As its my first project of this nature I would ideally like to go down the built turbo redblock route, sticking with Volvo parts.

Any advice appreciated even if a bit ambitious for the time being.

Cheers
Olly

Excellent Olly,

We are all fascinated by your project - post some words and pictures from time to time.

Alan

Went down to see the Volvo for first time.

Engine and gearbox all seem smooth and starts first time. Pulls nicely through all the gears and still stops 10x better than my 03 KA lol.

Couple things need looking at like heating and radio. But think heating just a fuse. With the radio if I wanted to put a modern DAB din one in I have what changes would be needed for the radio loom. Are there adapter kits or is an older radio easier.

Shocks are a little shot but still drives nicely and doesn't need to pass an MOT again:regular_smile: .

Found all the history car only did 30k miles between 1980 and 2001 and other than some rust on the rear bumper and a little on the roof doesn't seem to be any major spots.
https://i.ibb.co/qmDY3Vv/IMG-4081.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/RQ1Kb2y/IMG-4082.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/5nXrVgP/IMG-4084.jpg

There are radio/head unit converter kits on ebay for the 7/940 models, the same seller may be able to supply for the 240 as well. They don't have anything listed for the 240 but could be worth an email to the sell :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182619474818

With the rust on the bumpers, get some kitchen foil, roll it into a ball with the shiny side out, dip it into some water (or spray water onto the rusty bumper) and rub the foil over the rust. :thumbs_up:

Looks like your rear springs and dampers are shot, probably best to change both for new, standard (not self-leveling) items.

When you say the heating needs a fuse, it doesn't, there are no fuses in the heating! :nah: Do you mean the fan isn't working? :thinking:

If the temperature gauge is barely moving, chances are it needs a new 'stat. Fairly simple job to do but make sure the new one comes with the correct seal and invest in a tube of silicone grease to put in the groove of the seal and also round the edges of the seal. If the temp gauge is getting to the halfway point and there is little or no warmth being blown out of the heater, some chimp may have swapped the heater matrix hoses and got them round the wrong way.

Cheers for this.

Ill have a look at what I can find.
Temp gauge seems to be working but will check out next time Im down.
And yes the fan isn't blowing rather than just cool air.
Not sure entirely then just assumed would be a fuse as was working when it was last parked.

For the fan, invest in a 6mm or 1/4" drill bit, find the fuse in the fusebox for the fan, turn it in the springs so the main fusible link is facing you, push down or up on the "springy" contact and lift out the other end of the fuse and then remove the fuse.

Now use the drill bit between your fingers to rotate it against where the fuse sits in the contacts. Use some emery cloth/tape gently on the fuse ends caps to clean those as well, refit and test. The switch may also need some exercise to get some life out of the fan if it's been sat.

Try all positions of the fan switch as it could still be working on the fastest speed, indicating another potential fault.

As you may have guessed with Volvos, assuming can be a fruitless exercise! :err:

That sounds very good. Have a look underneath for rust though (rear wheel arches, boot floor and sills).

Your motor car almost certainly will not have a DIN socket and loom for the radio. It is trivially simple to run a permanent live plus a switched live (I took them direct from the fuse board) and find a good -ve return to install one yourself. That way you could easily fit a modern radio (only those 3 of the DIN pins are used by the radio itself). If you wanted a powered antenna then you would need 2 more (but that seems a bit pointless with a DAB radio). The speaker connections depend on what you want to fit (you probably won’t be happy with the mono one Volvo intended as standard). Again it is best to wire them through DIN socket, the wiring is self explanatory. The radio aperture itself is single DIN size, so most generic type ones will fit, but you may need some trim to finish it nicely.

I didn’t quite understand what was not working about the heater. Is it just the fan not working, or is it not getting hot? Like Dave says, the fan may just be the fuse - if it isn’t it is a tricky replacement of the fan itself. If it isn’t getting hot then it may need flushing out - it would be a good idea to flush the engine coolant anyway (same stuff), use the LS method - Dave can advise.

If the shock absorbers aren’t any good then change them. They aren’t expensive (pattern parts work just fine) and it is an afternoon’s work. I know your motor car no longer needs a MoT test, but the legislation isn’t there to excuse you from making your car safe for the road. While you have each wheel up in the air changing the shock absorbers have a good look around for rust, also shake the wheel bearings, and inspect the suspension bushes and track rod ends with a pry bar. I’d be surprised if at least a few were not worn out on a 41 year old motor car.

It looks like a very nice motor car. Well done.

Alan

My 940 is polybushed with GAZ GT adjustable dampers and the handling is miles better than a land yacht has any right to be and it hasn't been lowered at all.

A sensible 40mm drop would be good for aesthetics and handling otherwise you run in to bump steer issues from the angle of the steering rack arms (atleast you do on 7/900 series so I imagine the same applies to 200 series). You could get classicswede lowering springs with GAZ GT dampers, polybushes and a thicker set of ARB's and it will handle brilliantly and look good, the best bit being you can buy those parts bit by bit when funds allow (I'd recommend starting with the dampers). These 200 series definitely need bigger wheels to help with the style as well.

If you want a turbo project I know someone selling a 240 turbo project if you're interested, I haven't got any details on it yet but I imagine you could sell your 244 and it would cover the cost of it.