BBC Watchdog and Volvo ETM failures.
 

BBC Watchdog is presently looking into Volvo ETM failures.

Can I suggest that those of us who are concerned immediately write to Watchdog by going on-line to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/contact/transport.shtml; or write to: BBC Watchdog, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TS; or telephone: 020 8535 1000

In a recent communication with the program they told me that they need more individuals to make contact with them before they can follow up the issue (e.g. apparently they had 50 contacts regarding the Audi problem).

From what I have seen, if the BBC gets involved then we just might get a result.

Melvyn

broken link
 

Hi Melvyn,

thanks for the heads up but the link to the BBC web site appears to be broken. I have a 1999 S80 which has had its ETM replaced so I'd be interested in adding my tuppence worth !.

regards

Brendan

Try this
 

Here ya go:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/contact/transport.shtml

i haven't had a problem yet but would still like to abck this campaign as it's only a matter of time before we're all effected,any suggestions?i can't really complain about something that hasn't happened.

Do you have any of the early symptoms, like erratic idle?

Melvyn

I had this on my 99 2.9, and it was easily cured by cleaning the throttle bore around the flap.

That is incorrect. See http://vexedvolvo.org/

After the well documented problems in USA i think it would be wise of us to use this opportunity to protect our wallets now and in the future,if watchdog are willing to take this on and pursue it then i feel we'd be foolish to let the chance slip away.If in 1 years time one of us has to fork out the £600 to get this part replaced imagine how pi$$ed off we'd be,it'll be too late to wish we'd done something then.

My efforts to defend Volvo and prove an insight into whats happening have obviously been taken far too seriously so I will just be quiet on the matter.

Volvo has NOT said it will fix the problem without charging. I have paid out over £800 to have mine fixed. Volvo UK has actually said it is going to do nothing about it except now have a software upgrade in April for those with ETM's that have already PAID to have it replaced.

And so you know, the ETM part is EXACTLY the same on the US and UK cars. My father owns 28 Volvo dealerships and has this in writing so guess what... it is going to fail. Your local Volvo dealership may be lucky as far as ATM failures go but mine has numerous ones in this last 6 months.

And lastly, Volvo is one the sourced the part and knew of the problem. This faulty part has almost killed numerous people, including me. So quit spouting off about stuff you honestly don't know about.

To all those affected by ETM issues I sincerely hope that now it has gone on Watchdog the momentum will grow, as it looks as in this case Volvo/Ford aren’t listening to what there customers are saying (SAFETY, UNPREDICTABILITY AND FINANCIAL LOSS THROUGH A MISSCONCEIVED DESIGN) without which they would not exist, just look at the USA market.
Eventually through the determination already shown and revising your strategy Corporations eventually succumb.
I wish you all well and a successful conclusion to this whole mess.

My my200 t5 etm failed I fortunalty had a aftermarket warranty and it was covered and I was fully reimbersed. I no longer have the car but if you have a used car warranty it may be worth checking I had mine with warranty direct best 300 I ever spent got a geartronic bos as well

BBC Watchdog
 

While waiting for the MoT to be finished yesterday at an independent garage, I was handed a flyer about re-manufactured ETM units, as I had earlier discussed the symptoms with one of the mechanic. My car has been converted to dual fuel and is much more sensitive to fuel problems while running on LPG.

I called the company, who quoted £250 plus courier plus VAT and said the car would be off the road for three days. I then started doing some research on the internet and came across this site, and realised this was not the 'isolated' problem the dealer I had bought the car from had alluded to.

After collecting the car I called Watchdog and left a message and then called Volvo, and also left a message. I didn't realise Watchdog were running the piece and did not see it. However, Volvo called back late this afternoon, said they had been 'inundated' with calls today and that I would get a free software upgrade.

Time will tell whether that solves the probnlem, but at least they have now been forced to concede there is a problem. I was very close to ordering a re-manufactured unit, and am glad I came across this site.

I'm glad it worked out well for you. However, when I last had a warranty policy with Warranty Direct, they did not cover "manufacturing defects" which left me hugely out of pocket when my dealer admitted to them that some repairs they did were to correct a known issue. Hence, all those with aftermarket warranties should definitely check this with the respective companies because VCUK might have just done you the additional 'service' of voiding any cover of the ETM with this public admission.

Sadly this whole mess is going to be hugely damaging for Volvo and as much as I'd hate to say it, they thoroughly deserve it for the way they've handled the issue.

My efforts to defend Volvo and prove an insight into whats happening have obviously been taken far too seriously so I will just be quiet on the matter.

My efforts to defend Volvo and prove an insight into whats happening have obviously been taken far too seriously so I will just be quiet on the matter.

volvo source the parts so they're responsible for their reliability,if they have problems with a component then they should get onto the manufacturer.We buy our our cars off volvo,not marrelli!

After-Shock,

As a consumer, your comments seem very odd. Without wishing to appear paranoid, have you been tasked to make these remarks? I certainly hope not, that would be far too sinister.

I guess it is natural that you feel an affinity towards your employer. Believe it or not, I also feel loyalty to Volvo. I have had good service over the years and have no doubt that the older Volvo models (particularly the 240 and perhaps 740) were superior to their competition. That's assuming one values safety, durability and reliability above handling and high speed performance. Though as I and others have said, the ETM problem is real and unsatisfactory and not what one would expect from a quality brand.

Incidentally, the increased problem in the USA maybe caused by driving conditions causing increased localised wear on the potentiometer track - American roads are straight and very long.

Melvyn Smith
PS Incidentally, why is there a tendency on these forums to hide behind pseudonyms? At best this seems somewhat impersonal.

My father owns the dealerships all across the US and is one of Volvo's largest dealers in the world. And you would be mistaken about the part not having an almost 100% (94% to be exact before 100,000 miles) failure rate. The Volvo documents in federal court in the United States (which Volvo lost the fight to have made hidden) prove this. See, this is one time you should not have been speaking when you truly didn't know what you are talking about.

Also, Aftershock, did you know that it is against Volvo corporate employment policy to speak on forums like this even when it is to help? Volvo Cars UK verified this for me today and have been reading your posts and will be making contact with the site owner to obtain your information because by law (and yes I am a solicitor) when you are employed by a corporation and make these somments you are speaking for the entire company by proxy and Volvo Group could be held legally liable for the comments you make as an employee. Trust me, if the BBC could get my information to contact me over this Volvo can certainly get yours. And I do know for a fact that Volvo Customer Care UK and their management team are watching this forum because they can repeat back to me word for word what I am writing.

And just so you know, the ETM part by the manufacturer is the same in the US as it is here as it is in Australia (where they are also being investigated as this is now a safety issue in both countries). I verified this by having my part number of my failed ETM compared against those in the US and they are all from the same plant.

Are these documents in the public domain?

This shows the power of web-communities to make corporations sit up and take some notice. If the Watchdog programme brings more people to this forum, the momentum will grow.
[/QUOTE]

On a slightly different topic, there is some interesting research by Cambridge University on the rate of safety related recalls by different manufacturers in the UK over a ten year period. Volvo come out mid-table with a rate of 53% (recalls as a percentage of total registrations) between 1992-2002. Far east manufacturers typically had recall rates below 30% and some (Subaru and Isuzu) had a ZERO percent rate. Several different theories are proposed for why this might be and if you're really interested, you can read the full report at http://www.cbr.cam.ac.uk/pdf/wp295.pdf

ETM - Which models and years are affected?
 

I didn't see the recent watchdog programme. Was there a reference to which Volvo models are affected? I have a 2000 S80 2.4 140 manual. If Volvo Uk are reading this, would they please note the effect this correspondence and the recent Watchdog programme is having on owners confidence in their vehicles ability to do what they chose the brand for.

Here are the cars included

VOLVO / 700 2000
VOLVO / 740 2000
VOLVO / 780 1999
VOLVO / 850 1999-2000
VOLVO / 855 2000
VOLVO / C70 1999-2002
VOLVO / C70 CONVERTIBLE 1999-2001
VOLVO / COTTRELL 1999
VOLVO / S40 2000-2001
VOLVO / S60 1999-2002
VOLVO / S70 1999-2000
VOLVO / S80 1999-2001
VOLVO / S90 1999
VOLVO / V40 2000-2001
VOLVO / V70 1999-2002
VOLVO / V70XC 1999-2001
VOLVO / V90 1999
VOLVO / VOLVO 1999-2001
VOLVO / X70 1999
VOLVO / XC70 2001

Yes, as I have been told. Check out http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...fectsearch.cfm and put PE05041 in the quick search field. You can also check out http://www.fazmiclaw.com/Volvo.html as these are the class action solicitors handling the VOlvo suit in the US. They have a lot of information as well.

Could you please elaborate on the info relating to these cars. This is the first I've heard of the S/V40s being involved, certainly in Europe anyway. The majority of S/V40 cars can't have an ETM problem because they have a mechanical throttle. The only ones which I think have ETMs are the 1.8 GDI and 1.9 D, so are those the specific models you are referring to?

This is straight from Volvo North America to the cars affected. I don't know anymore than that to be honest as I have concentrated on research on the V70. If you read the previous links I have given, there is a lot of information in there.

MTA: Those are from the NHTSA (independent agency investigating a safety issue now in the US) release on the Engineering Analysis said the cars were included. This was news to me and I know nothing more than this.

According to the Watchdog website, "All of the following models with petrol engines are affected: not just the V70s and C70s (model years 1999-2001), but the S60, S70, S80, XC70 and the V70 non-turbos and C70s (model year 2002). Also, all S60 and V70 Bi fuel models are affected."

So there is a difference between what the NHTSA and Volvo UK are saying are affected and I honestly don't know.

see www.vexedvolvo.org
 

Hi There are a number of threads running on this topic

I also strongly recommend you give www.vexedvolvo.org a read as it covers most of the original queries, models affected etc.

I have an 2000 S40 2.0litre sitting on my drive right now (as a courttesy car while my V70 is in for checking). It has a cable throttle - I just checked.

ETM Failures
 

Cleanig worked on a few occasions on our 2001 2.9 but then the worst happend on the Hoggs Back going to Guilford. The car dropped into limp home mode as the result of a further ETM failure with a very scary few moments trying to get off the carriageway. Cost of replacement ETM - £600. Cost of dammage to nervous systems - beyond calculation. Volvo need to sort this!

Steve Moore

I am sure Watchdoog would be interested to hear of that.

Melvyn

Contacting Volvo
 

I emailed Volvo over the weekend, referred to Watchdog, and told them my concerns. I have received an email back to say my car is one that "may be potentially affected" and I will be contacted within a few months for the software download to be installed that they are working on.

"Volvo do not consider the issue to be safety related" - a quote!

Suggestions for ETM outrage
 

Hi across the pond,
I saw this post at Volvoxc.com. I hope you will not be offended.
http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showpo...03&postcount=7

Some ideas.
The US letter is posted at http://matthewsvolvosite.com click on 'Volvo Forum' then 'Don's ETM Room' then click on 'The ETM letter to owners." Some of these have been sent out but not all of them. You might use this as ammunition but I doubt if it will work.

Also look at 'Troubleshooting' at http://vexedvolvo.org to see the hoops that the dealer has to jump though before they get to replacing the ETM.

Look at the 'Beyond North America" for a couple of success stories and the company line that Volvo is feeding you.

Can you bargain with the dealer that you will pay his cost for the ETM and he contribute the labor and keep your good will.

I think someone mentioned a law that says 'The product is not suitable for the indended use'. I think you can prove this. It is a part that should not fail, but if it is impossible to build 'no fail' replacement, there shoud be a way to inspect the part and replace the throttle position sensor.

Can you get the names of people that have sent e-mails to Watchdog. You might get them organized.

Where is Volvo UK located, probably not more than a days journey from most of the UK? Make you some posters and park as many Volvos as you can get in front of the office. Then slowly drive though some major cities, I understand that you are forbidden to drive in central London.

Among the volvoclub.org.uk you are bound to have a solicitor (lawyer) that might be interested in getting involved on a pro bono (free) basis.

Again, If you want me to keep the mailing list I am willing. I only send out messages by bcc (blind copy) so no one else can see or reply to them.

Don Willson
DonWillson@comcast.net
http://vexedvolvo.org

I think you are referring to a comment I made in relation to the Sales of Goods Act here in the UK - see http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/fa...legoodsact.htm

I have been in contact with the Vehicle Safety Branch (VSB) of the Vehicle & Operator Services Agency (VOSA) here in the UK. Following my raising this issue, they met with representatives from Volvo but so far seem unwilling to take action. The communication to me was marked as confidential, so I would feel uncomfortable in posting it here. However, they do seem confused as the basis they give for not taking action is that, I quote, "as an adequate warning is given, there appears no reason to consider an action under the terms of the Code". They seem to be under the impression that a warning light illuminates prior to the failure, which as far as I know is not the case.

If anyone else would like to contact the VSB, the Head of Vehicle Safety
(VOSA) is Mr Jeffrey Sweeting, tel. 0117 9543245 Let me know if you would like his e-mail address (again I would rather not post it).

Melvyn
PS I'll also post a copy of this on the UK Volvo owners’ forum web-site

ETM's
 

Why is Aftershock getting a hard time. It appears to me he is only stating what he has learned from his colleagues. He is obviously very loyal to Volvo and probably his employer so why is he being threatened with legal action. Sadly, this course of action is very prevalent in America today and even more sadly reaching our shores very rapidly. Personally I think you have not been unreasonable Aftershock in the way you have reported this and if my father owned 28 dealerships anywhere I don't think I would be paying for the replacement ETM.

Regards

Dibble

Apologies if this posting appears a little rude or pushy, however frankly I am astonished at the short term, ‘flash in the pan’ nature of apparent interest in this issue. I realise that many are not affected, however unless those of us who are take more action we will be permanently lumbered with an on-going expensive and potentially dangerous problem. The evidence points to the fact that sooner or later each of us will suffer repeated failure of this defective component. It is pretty clear that we cannot simply sit back and expect that this issue will resolve itself.

I have been attempting to pursue the matter with the Vehicle Safety Branch of the Vehicle & Operator Services Agency (VOSA). They seem interested and are currently awaiting a response from Volvo. However, in a recent e-mail the Head of Vehicle Safety, a Mr Jeffrey Sweeting, commented that he was surprised that following the Watchdog item they had received NO REPORTS concerning this. So am I!

Can I urge all those affected by this problem to contact VOSA immediately.

Contact details are:

Jeffrey Sweeting
Head, Vehicle Safety
VOSA
tel: 0117 9543245
e-mail: Jeffrey.Sweeting@vosa.gov.uk

On the other had, if there really is no interest in attempting to sort this out, I’ll give up and run the risks and suffer the costs along with the rest of you.

Melvyn

ETM Problems Aussie Style
 

Hi,

Here, FYI is my email to Jeffery:

To Jeffrey Sweeting,
Head, Vehicle Safety
VOSA UK

Dear Jeffrey,

There are around 6000 volvo owners potentially affected here in AU.

I have evidence suggesting around 35 ETM's are being replaced each month here in Australia.

Volvo Cars Australia refuse to acknowledge this as a safely problem nor agree any ETMs are being replaced.

The extended warranty program in North America (NA) was introduced under the guise of a pollution fix issue, when in fact it is a major safety problem. Late last year in a preliminary letter to NA Volvo owners who had already replaced ETMs, Volvo NA referred to the issue as a safety concern. Now they can't have it both ways.

We have formed Volvolemon Action Group Australia ( VAGA) - see info about us at:

www.vexedvolvo.org

Will send you some emails reflecting our struggles with Volvo here in AU.

I have included your equivalent here in Australia in the Cc above. Lawrence Glynn at the Department of Transport and Regional Services (DOTARS), whom you may wish to touch base with.

A very important point you should be made aware of. The recent letter from Volvo NA to NA Volvo owners recommends that even if Volvo owners have not experienced an ETM issue they are advised to take their car into a Volvo dealer to have a software update installed. Volvo should/must advise all affected Volvo owners worldwide of this requirement as the same ETM part number applies to all affected Volvos.

I conclude by recommending that you, as should DOTARS here in Australia, place advertisements seeking responses from Volvo owners who have experienced ETM problems. We should be able to expect such proactive action from our Government service providers.

Sadly, its more often the case where the customer - i.e the likes of VAGA need to bully, go through the stressful consequences to seek action when we shouldn't have to.

Regards

Nick Ilic

Volvolemon Action Group Australia
:waffen093:

Seems that the preliminary investigations of the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration have justified promoting this issue to an "Engineering Evaluation" during March . I gather this means that sufficient concern has been raised to suggest that this issue is a saftety related issue and that a more detailed investigation is required.

This is a seperate investigation to that of the Californian agency that linked the issue to emmisions, which resulted in the 10 year/200,000 mile extended warranty in the US for the ETM.

I hope this puts the pressure on for a redesign/recall of the ETM and not just some updated software to manage the limp mode differently.

Oli

(thanks to defgh1 on the V70R.COM forum for the tip-off about the update)
(I've e-mailed VOSA with that news too)

News from VOSA
 

Had a response already from Mr Sweeting today, to my e-mail about the NHTSA raising their investigation to "Engineering Evaluation". It reads:

"Thank you for your communication.
VOSA is working with the manufacturer and expects to finalise matters in
the next week or so."

Seems like they're after swift action. I hope he drives a hard bargain/Volvo too.

Oli

ETM failure
 

Good to see that this issue is finally making some progress. I raised concerns on the S60 forum mid 2005. At that time Volvo UK denied all knowledge of a problem. My local dealer (Ray Chapman of Malton) have been extremely helpful and after I'd harrassed Volvo UK for a couple of months they asked the dealer to take the car (2001 S60 2.0T SE) in for three days to 'run some tests'. The mechanic who went on the road test with me said, without prompting, what the problem appeared to be but low and behold, when I got the official response from Volvo UK, they claimed to have found nothing wrong. Obviously from a diagnostic where no fault codes seem to be logged for this problem that's the obvious conclusion.
I also contacted VOSA who investigated and having spoken to Volvo UK they advised me they were taking no further action at that time.
I'm no expert but from my research (mainly Don Willsons good work in the USA), I would say that a software upgrade does nothing more than hide one of the symptoms. It makes no contribution whatsoever to solving what is simply a physical component breakdown.
I too await proper remedial action by Volvo UK.

Hi All.
I too used to be a Volvo owner namely a 740 GL station Wagon 89 mod. which I could not fault, the odometer gave up the ghost at about 200,000 Km(I'm in Australia hence the Km) and sold it about 18 mths later with about another 30,000 Km's added. I looked at a 850 wagon as a replacement(95 mod.) but rejected it, maybe the difference in the feel, I just don't know . I bought a 4cyl. Mercedes with 530,000 Km instead (another good vehicle).

I started to again think about a Volvo, but having found out about this ETM problem I'm not at all sure this is the way to go. A safety situation that is not driver initiated should never occur. I feel sure that I am not alone in my decision to give Volvo a miss which cannot be good for it's image.

I can't help thinking that there is more to Volvo's denial of the problem than meets the eye. I am not able to afford a post 2002 vehicle even if the problem does not exist, so I assume it's a pre-98 vehicle or a different direction completely

Stay safe if you can.

Lennie.

Update
 

Whats the latest on this ETM issue? I'm looking at buying a V70 / XC70, and don't want to get caught out. Particularly concerned about the aftermarket warranty providers not covering them.