Very light sensitive steering
 

Hi
My 221 (120 estate) has suffered from overlight steering for some time- making it feel dangerous over .45mph. we have changed joints, steering box, rear axle (twice) and tried many tyre combinations and increased caster to attempt a remedy. The settings are as listed- could the difference in caster cause this ( the upper wishbone bolt has seized) light steering?

Volvo 221 1966 right left
Toe in 2mm
Castor-positive degrees 4.5 3.0
KPI- degrees 14 15.7
Camber-degrees -1.0 -1.0
Wheels 5 ½ J x 15 Volvo Steel Rims
Tyres 185 R 15
Pressures Front 24 Rear 30

Light steering
 

If you are in Worcester, UK midlands, you are welcome to come round to mine, near Droitwich, see what we can find. Regards, Andy.

From the green book KPI should be 8 degree and castor 0 to 1 degree +- 1 degree
When you say light steering what exactly do you mean? Is it very responsive to any input? Does it self align back to straight or do you have to steer it back
It sounds like not enough castor but the numbers are way more
Have these readings come from an alignment jig ? Or home done?

You have this castor adjustment across both wheels then a secondary adjustment to get them the same, this is done with the two bolts and shims, which bolt is seized?

Is the preload on the steering shaft at the gearbox correct ? What happens if you tighten the adjustment screw an 1/8 turn ?

You need to distinguish between lightness that might originate from a lack of self centering in the steering versus excessive play in the steering which results is a dead / floaty zone of steering response.

You appear to have addressed most of the sources of excessive steering system play. You said you changed the steering box. Since vintage Volvo steering boxes are out of production does that mean you replaced the box with another used box or you attempted a partial rebuild? Play in vintage Volvo steering boxes is a fairly well known issue and can to a certain extent can be improved with the pitman arm adjustment screw which grj0 refers to. Be careful with that adjustment as excessively tight can contribute to more steering box wear. The service manual describes the correct procedure for setting the adjustment.

Vintage Volvos run with the minimum amount of caster that is probably safe because of the lack power steering. Your caster angles are much more positive than factory spec which should be safe because it provides more self centering action at highway speeds; however, I expect that your steering when parking the car must now be rather heavy. Modern cars typically run with > +5 deg caster; but, have power steering to compensate for that. Your caster should be contributing to a car that has a fair amount of self centering in the steering at highway speeds. The normal tolerance for difference in the left - right caster values is 1/2 degree. Your difference is excessive. A significant difference in caster causes the car to pull to the side with less caster. People who race cars that only turn left (stock car racers) will set the steering up with differential caster. I assume you are not going oval track racing so this is not a desirable feature for you. However, aside from the tendency to pull and probably increase tire wear I don't know that the caster differential is causing overly light steering.

The seized upper wishbone bolt comment has me confused. Do you mean the actual wishbone pivot bolt has seized? If so and this means that the upper wishbone is not free to move that would create too many unknown steering effects. If what you mean is that the bolt for the adjustment shim at the upper wishbone pivot point is seized (which is responsible for your caster mis match) I don't think that is the cause of your overly light steering. If it is the adjustment bolt that is seized then you do need to disassemble that side so that you can extract and replace the bolt by whatever means so that you can get the caster values to match. I would be inclined to limit my caster experiments to +3 deg or less because increased caster will cause increased load on the steering box during low speed steering which will contribute to steering box wear which is something you need to avoid with the vintage steering box.

Aside from your caster mismatch, your caster values suggest that the car should have good self centering / tracking at highway speeds. All the other alignment values are consistent with Volvo specs. You could try a little more positive toe; but, this does tend to increase tire wear.

So, first thing I would check is the amount of play in the steering box just because that is the easiest thing to check. It may not be completely fixable; but, you may be able to minimize it with the correct adjustment of the pitman arm shaft adjustment screw. You need to fix the seized bolt which I assume is the shim adjustment bolt because a seized wishbone pivot should not have made it through any kind of MOT inspection.

Perchance the crossmember has been off and put back without the original shims? These shims do 2 jobs. Correct differences between each side and set up the basic alignment parameters. All of yours are well out.

light steering
 

Yes- we know about that.
thanks

steering
 

Gosh thanks for reply.
we attempted to increase castor to light steering. when i got the car 28 years ago it had negative castor one side and positive the other- BUT- within spec!
so we corrected that and all was fine then about 10 years ago we started with this light steering- runs straight- no drift but you can steer with one finger touching the wheel. I begged the MOT test garage to find something wrong- they couldn't. so we replaced components and angles and had it checked by various dealers but no culprit found. we have on loan kit to measure angles and are still baffled. Wife refuses to drive it as it is so sensitive... unlike me!

steering
 

hi
A midlands volvo chap says if anything my box is too tight. I tried his and found it a bit sloppy. I used to be able to cruise at 80-90mph but now- 45 is enough for sweaty palms and brow.


we attempted to increase castor to light steering. when i got the car 28 years ago it had negative castor one side and positive the other- BUT- within spec!
so we corrected that and all was fine then about 10 years ago we started with this light steering- runs straight- no drift but you can steer with one finger touching the wheel. I begged the MOT test garage to find something wrong- they couldn't. so we replaced components and angles and had it checked by various dealers but no culprit found. we have on loan kit to measure angles and are still baffled. Wife refuses to drive it as it is so sensitive... unlike me!

steering
 

I think we have looked at most of that- we have a collection of historic vehicles and they all steer better than my estate- even with excessive play...... I think equalising the caster may be the next factor to attack. trouble is now it is so muddy we cannot get to the workshop!

I have been told to loosen it by local volvo man but his vehicle feel sloppy BUT, run ok at speed..

steering
 

I will have to look, It is a while since we did it.

steering
 

hi Andy
Could you send me your contact details
Steve

Steering
 

we had it set up on 4 way jig and these figures come from home workshop measurements.

steering
 

hi,
we attempted to increase caster to improve steering. when I got the car 28 years ago it had negative caster one side and positive the other- BUT- within spec! And it drove awfully.
so we corrected that and all was fine then about 10 years ago we started with this light steering- runs straight- no drift but you can steer with one finger touching the wheel. I begged the MOT test garage to find something wrong- they couldn't. so we replaced components and angles and had it checked by various dealers but no culprit found. we have kit to measure angles and are still baffled. Wife refuses to drive it as it is so sensitive... unlike me!

steering
 

hi,
we attempted to increase caster to improve steering. when i got the car 28 years ago it had negative caster one side and positive the other- BUT- within spec!
so we corrected that and all was fine then about 10 years ago we started with this light steering- runs straight- no drift but you can steer with one finger touching the wheel. I begged the MOT test garage to find something wrong- they couldn't. so we replaced components and angles and had it checked by various dealers but no culprit found. we have kit to measure angles and are still baffled. Wife refuses to drive it as it is so sensitive... unlike me!

hi
 

where are you?

Hi Steve, give me ring on 07533363572.
Cheers, Andy.

I think my Estate is set up correctly and steering is light at speed. Fingertip at 70 on a smooth uncambered road and gets even lighter if you go faster! With the big steering wheel it accentuates the lightness but you need that below about 10mph and when turning around in the road. It may not be abnormal on your car. Don't overtighten the steering box to try and fix it. It will wreck the box and spoil the steering feel. A degree or so of toe in is about right. Don't run Oº toe in. See Amazon cars website for settings. If you can stand the heavy steering when manoeuvering you can always try a smaller wheel. Try 15".

Backing off the set screw which establishes the free play on the pitman arm shaft will increase the play / dead zone felt at the steering wheel. I would tend to avoid that advice. The service manual sets out the correct procedure for adjusting the set screw.

The amount of positive caster you are running should be giving you heavy steering. Doing camber measurements at home with a jig is not too hard if you have an absolutely level concrete surface or correct the measurements for the amount that the floor surface is out from level. Caster measurements are harder and you really need a set of turn plates for accurate measurement. The 20 deg tape marks on the floor is an OK approximation if you have big changes in camber. Not so good for small changes in camber where small differences become important. When you did the caster measurements at home did you do the + and - 20 deg camber angle measurements (or whatever Volvo recommends for this particular model)? If so, is there a chance that you messed up when it comes to adding or subtracting the two angles? The instructions associated with some of the home alignment jigs are really confusing, particularly the details around when you get one positive and one negative camber measurement at the two 20 deg angles and how you add or subtract the two values.

I would be inclined to pay a visit to a good alignment shop and ask them to do the measurements. You may need to search a bit to find an alignment shop that can do vintage vehicles. Most of the alignment shops are using automated systems and they don't really know how do do the measurements. If your car is not in the data base they are lost.

As 142 says it would be good if you can get a set of numbers for your front end alignment so that you can understand how it is working. Th rear end cannot be adjusted, but a modern system may use fittings on the rear end. They may show a degree or so out of line but there is nothing you can do about that. It is however vital that all of your bushings, front and back, as well as your ball joints, including the idler arm bush, are good with no obvious wear. Inspect those critically and replace as needed before spending money on an alignment or even a base measurement session. Caster and camber can only be adjusted with Volvo shims. If the cross member is original to the car and hasn't been removed or changed the caster should be OK. Camber can be moved from the factory setting to a very small amount of negative by adding extra shims. Adding one thick extra one of the type used as installed not a bad start. Don't try to adjust the caster by using these thick shims in just one position as this will strain the bolts and potentially cause them to break. If you are replacing the commonly worn upper inner cotton reel bushes it's a good time to add the camber shims. Most of the usual suspects should be able to supply these if you can't get them from a spares car.

It occurred to me that the Amazon has that 'interesting' arrangement where caster is adjusted by two means:
- inserting shims between the body and the cross member at the rear attachment bolt
- inserting shims at the upper wishbone attachment point

Rustinmotion had previously alluded to this. Shims between the body and the crossmember are to be equal so that the crossmember is not distorted, so presumably this makes an equal change in caster on both the left and right. If you have differences between left and right caster values you use the shim differences on the upper wishbone attachments to correct for differences between left and right. The service manual is not explicit on the priority of these adjustments for setting alignment. Reading between the lines, I would expect that with equal left and right (or no) shims between the crossmember and the body, you would then adjust the upper wishbone shims to get equal (but probably incorrect) caster on the left and right. You would then add equal (left and right) shims between the body and crossmember to get the caster value to its final value. You then get to correct the camber value because caster adjustment is always done first and if you have used the wishbone shims to adjust caster you have automatically screwed up camber. If the mounting bolt at the upper wishbone is seized up, it will either be very difficult or impossible to correct the left to right caster problem and impossible to correct camber on that side because camber changes require equal shims under both attachment bolts. The left to right caster problem should not be causing your 'floaty' issue; but, getting them balanced should make it easier to figure out what is going on with your steering.

I expect that most alignment shops will not be familiar with the two caster adjustment process for the Amazon so if you get alignment set by a shop you will probably have to have a discussion with them about the process. They probably will not want to do this for a flat fee because the business of having to jack the car up to insert the shims between the crossmember and the body , drop the car and check and then repeat if necessary is something that modern alignment jigs (that I have seen) are just not set up to accommodate.

I am still left wondering whether the signs on your caster calculations have not been flipped. Negative caster does make for light steering and if your + 3.0 / 4.5 deg were actually - 3.0 / 4.5 deg this would turn your car into a squirrel chaser at higher speeds. Grocery shopping carts run with negative caster which makes for easy maneuvering around the aisles; but, notoriously unstable at speed.

Having just done all the alignment on my car after rebuilding it, and having read all of this thread, I think this:
"I am still left wondering whether the signs on your caster calculations have not been flipped" Is the most likely culprit. Because it is very easy to do.

This link may be helpful to you, it was to me.

Silly question, but you have checked your tyre pressures?

I agree why are you running only 24lbs in the front tyres ?