Electrical: - Removing/Fitting the starter motor...

s julian j · Oct 8th, 2007, 19:47

Hi all,
I'm in charge of a 1988 240GL 2.0l engine (Hurray!) but the starter motor has recently died so I got hold of a new one to replace it.
However, I have just discovered that, while attempting to replace it, getting to atleast one of the two bolts that attaches the starter motor is almost physically impossible to get to from either above or below the engine.
Has anyone any experience and advice relating to my issue?
I can't imagine that the car has such a flaw in it's design, and perhaps lowering the whole engine is the only way to get to the two bolts - surely thats not necessary for a relatively minor task!!?

Who of you has removed and fitted their starter motor without any major issues?

Any advice and experience is warmly welcomed.

Regards,
Jonathan

Oct 8th, 2007, 20:04

You definately don't need to lower the engine. A socket and a wobbly extension bar should do it. I can't remember it being more than a 10 minute job.

Velorum · Oct 8th, 2007, 21:58

I found it a bugger of a job from the top - easier form underneath with the car up on ramps.

Sods law dictates that any job described as straightforward (only takes x number of minutes) will be a complete swine due to rusted on bolts, tools that you thought were good but are really crap quality, the makers desire to fit just about every size of nut know (and guess which spanner or socket you wont have?) etc etc. Best approach such things with a Zen like calm - I would recommend calm contemplation, some peppermint tea and empathetic vibes towards the part in question.

Failing that, drink three glasses of whiskey, hit it with a lump hammer and swear at the cat............

Clan · Oct 8th, 2007, 22:14

i've had no trouble a 19 mm (18mm on later models) combination spanner will reach the top bolt from the engine bay and the lower bolt from underneath but a socket with universal joint will do both from underneath ...

CTCNetwork · Oct 8th, 2007, 22:55

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Hutchinson

Best approach such things with a Zen like calm - I would recommend calm contemplation, some peppermint tea and empathetic vibes towards the part in question.

Failing that, drink three glasses of whiskey, hit it with a lump hammer and swear at the cat............

No, no, no Ian...

Straight in with a good Coffee kick, THEN head straight for the lump hammer!

In fact, it is always best to bring out the lump hammer, make sure the car sees the hammer, whisper quietly to the car that the hammer is good, heavy and always close by..

Des. . .

Clifford Pope · Oct 9th, 2007, 08:08

The top one is usually reckoned to be the difficult one. I have never had any difficulty using a ring spanner, from above, but on back to front so that the shank is angled away from the bulkhead. Cut the other end off if necessary to gain clearance, and then use a lever on the stump.

jorhyne · Oct 20th, 2007, 03:55

Hi guys, I discovered this forum in a quest to figure out how to remove the starter from my 1989 Volvo 240. I have been scouring the internet in search of the answer. This thread has some real insights into this predicament. I am from the U.S. and am not up to speed on the UK lingo. The word spanner for example I had to look that up and noticed it is the same thing as wrench. Ring spanner is a box end wrench. Is a wobbly extension the same thing as an extension with a universal joint? If using a ring spanner would an offset ring spanner be best?

I don't see how you get a spanner on the top bolt from the engine bay. I tried that and it looked impossible.

Regarding working from underneath, I was able to get a socket with a long extension and a universal joint on the bolt but it won't budge. There is just no room to get a good tug on the socket as the transmission is in the way. The bottom bolt I put a 19mm combination spanner on it and had to use my foot to break it loose. I can't use my foot for the top bolt. Any ideas how to break it loose? This must be the factory starter with the bolts this tight. I do not understand why the Volvo engineers made the starter so difficult to remove.

malb · Oct 20th, 2007, 14:43

Yes, they can be dog to shift the first time.

An offset ring spanner from the engine bay is a good shot. This is a box end wrench, but with the ring component offset from the handle, probably about 3/4 to 1 inch in the size range required. This normally gives some knuckle room. To use this in this application, the offset is reversed, so the ring is behind the handle which will be close to the firewall. Force would be applied via the other ring on the wrench.

In the US, this may clash with the brake booster.

A wobbly extension is an extension bar with the drive square reduced in size at either end if the flats so that the extension can operate at up to 10 degrees out of line with the bolt or socket axis (Think allong the lines of a ball headed hex key in 1/2 inch drive).

To take this route, lift the car a reasonable amount and use as long a set of extensions as possible to get back past the bellhousing. (Further if possible). Use a decent breaker bar initially to "crack" the grip, then complete with a ratchet.

I have a cheap but effective 24in extension, and combine that with another extension and the breaker bar. This gets me back past the end of the transmission.

The first time I had to do this in about 1980, I had a cheap 3/8 drive socket set and a kit of open ended wrenches. It was harder than with the comprehensive kit, but still possible.

jorhyne · Oct 20th, 2007, 16:41

Hi malb, thanks for the tips. I just got through doing the very thing you suggested with the long extension (many extensions combined to make one long extension) a universal joint at the end of the extension connected to the 19mm socket with a breaker bar to break the bolt loose. It was extremely tight but I managed to get it loose. Now that I installed the new starter, I learned the problem is not my starter! When I attempt to start the car, I hear clicking sounds, some other weird sounds that I can't describe and some sounds coming from the starter, and the emergency flasher lights come on and start blinking. All of these sounds and hazard lights blinking occurred before with the old starter. I assume the hazard lights blinking is trying to tell me something? I know the issue is not the battery as it is a brand new one I got a week ago. Any ideas what this can be? Now I must clean the new starter up and take it back. I hate to spend $120 for nothing!

Mike_Brace · Oct 20th, 2007, 18:46

This sounds like dirty or poor battery contacts or an earthing issue. Check in particular that the engine earth strap is ok.

Mike

Oct 8th, 2007, 19:47	#1
s julian j New Member Last Online: Oct 9th, 2007 11:45 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: High Wycombe	Removing/Fitting the starter motor... Hi all, I'm in charge of a 1988 240GL 2.0l engine (Hurray!) but the starter motor has recently died so I got hold of a new one to replace it. However, I have just discovered that, while attempting to replace it, getting to atleast one of the two bolts that attaches the starter motor is almost physically impossible to get to from either above or below the engine. Has anyone any experience and advice relating to my issue? I can't imagine that the car has such a flaw in it's design, and perhaps lowering the whole engine is the only way to get to the two bolts - surely thats not necessary for a relatively minor task!!? Who of you has removed and fitted their starter motor without any major issues? Any advice and experience is warmly welcomed. Regards, Jonathan

Oct 8th, 2007, 21:58	#3
Velorum VOC Member Last Online: Apr 17th, 2023 20:49 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Newquay	I found it a bugger of a job from the top - easier form underneath with the car up on ramps. Sods law dictates that any job described as straightforward (only takes x number of minutes) will be a complete swine due to rusted on bolts, tools that you thought were good but are really crap quality, the makers desire to fit just about every size of nut know (and guess which spanner or socket you wont have?) etc etc. Best approach such things with a Zen like calm - I would recommend calm contemplation, some peppermint tea and empathetic vibes towards the part in question. Failing that, drink three glasses of whiskey, hit it with a lump hammer and swear at the cat............ __________________ Past Volvos 340's (2), 240 saloons (4), 240 estates (5), 740 estate (1), 760 saloon (1), 940 saloon (1), 940 estate (1)

Oct 8th, 2007, 22:14	#4
Clan Experienced Member Last Online: Yesterday 22:41 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: L/H side	i've had no trouble a 19 mm (18mm on later models) combination spanner will reach the top bolt from the engine bay and the lower bolt from underneath but a socket with universal joint will do both from underneath ... __________________ My comments are only based on my opinions and vast experience .

Oct 20th, 2007, 03:55	#7
jorhyne New Member Last Online: Mar 15th, 2008 05:09 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brunswick,Georgia	Hi guys, I discovered this forum in a quest to figure out how to remove the starter from my 1989 Volvo 240. I have been scouring the internet in search of the answer. This thread has some real insights into this predicament. I am from the U.S. and am not up to speed on the UK lingo. The word spanner for example I had to look that up and noticed it is the same thing as wrench. Ring spanner is a box end wrench. Is a wobbly extension the same thing as an extension with a universal joint? If using a ring spanner would an offset ring spanner be best? I don't see how you get a spanner on the top bolt from the engine bay. I tried that and it looked impossible. Regarding working from underneath, I was able to get a socket with a long extension and a universal joint on the bolt but it won't budge. There is just no room to get a good tug on the socket as the transmission is in the way. The bottom bolt I put a 19mm combination spanner on it and had to use my foot to break it loose. I can't use my foot for the top bolt. Any ideas how to break it loose? This must be the factory starter with the bolts this tight. I do not understand why the Volvo engineers made the starter so difficult to remove. Last edited by jorhyne; Oct 20th, 2007 at 04:10.

Oct 20th, 2007, 14:43	#8
malb Member Last Online: Dec 29th, 2013 11:04 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne	Yes, they can be dog to shift the first time. An offset ring spanner from the engine bay is a good shot. This is a box end wrench, but with the ring component offset from the handle, probably about 3/4 to 1 inch in the size range required. This normally gives some knuckle room. To use this in this application, the offset is reversed, so the ring is behind the handle which will be close to the firewall. Force would be applied via the other ring on the wrench. In the US, this may clash with the brake booster. A wobbly extension is an extension bar with the drive square reduced in size at either end if the flats so that the extension can operate at up to 10 degrees out of line with the bolt or socket axis (Think allong the lines of a ball headed hex key in 1/2 inch drive). To take this route, lift the car a reasonable amount and use as long a set of extensions as possible to get back past the bellhousing. (Further if possible). Use a decent breaker bar initially to "crack" the grip, then complete with a ratchet. I have a cheap but effective 24in extension, and combine that with another extension and the breaker bar. This gets me back past the end of the transmission. The first time I had to do this in about 1980, I had a cheap 3/8 drive socket set and a kit of open ended wrenches. It was harder than with the comprehensive kit, but still possible. __________________ Drive it till it drops... Then kick it back to life!!!

Oct 8th, 2007, 20:04	#2
Fivehundred Guest Location:	You definately don't need to lower the engine. A socket and a wobbly extension bar should do it. I can't remember it being more than a 10 minute job.

Oct 9th, 2007, 08:08	#6
Clifford Pope Not an expert but ... Last Online: Yesterday 07:00 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Boncath	The top one is usually reckoned to be the difficult one. I have never had any difficulty using a ring spanner, from above, but on back to front so that the shank is angled away from the bulkhead. Cut the other end off if necessary to gain clearance, and then use a lever on the stump.

Oct 20th, 2007, 16:41	#9
jorhyne New Member Last Online: Mar 15th, 2008 05:09 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brunswick,Georgia	Hi malb, thanks for the tips. I just got through doing the very thing you suggested with the long extension (many extensions combined to make one long extension) a universal joint at the end of the extension connected to the 19mm socket with a breaker bar to break the bolt loose. It was extremely tight but I managed to get it loose. Now that I installed the new starter, I learned the problem is not my starter! When I attempt to start the car, I hear clicking sounds, some other weird sounds that I can't describe and some sounds coming from the starter, and the emergency flasher lights come on and start blinking. All of these sounds and hazard lights blinking occurred before with the old starter. I assume the hazard lights blinking is trying to tell me something? I know the issue is not the battery as it is a brand new one I got a week ago. Any ideas what this can be? Now I must clean the new starter up and take it back. I hate to spend $120 for nothing! Last edited by jorhyne; Oct 20th, 2007 at 16:47.

Oct 20th, 2007, 18:46	#10
Mike_Brace Former contributor Last Online: May 15th, 2024 09:52 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rhosgoch, Anglesey	This sounds like dirty or poor battery contacts or an earthing issue. Check in particular that the engine earth strap is ok. Mike __________________ A Volvo is for life not just for Christmas!

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